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Message: <blockquote data-quote="clearstream" data-source="post: 9242501" data-attributes="member: 71699">To the contrary, I aim to render the term as meaningful as possible. If that necessitates reclaiming it, then so be it. Far from being descriptive of nothing, it exactly describes what crucially distinguishes ludonarrative from traditional narrative.That asserted, there is a live debate around whether games are narrative. My sense is that game scholars have moved to a shared acceptance that at least some games are. The question is whether the concept of narrative is flexible enough to encompass author/audience experiences such as the journey through an action videogame? This is particularly acute for TTRPG, where it is hard not to describe the play in terms of a narrative around the table. IIRC a post-classical narratology venn-diagram places all TTRPG into the narrative side. (That's where I place it, too.)Even were some games not narrative, playing to find out still describes them, and one can hardly argue that we are content with (or even count as) games that are perfectly deterministic from our perspective! This may be where we must agree to disagree, and each go on with our uses of PtFO.</blockquote>