NOW LIVE! Today's the day you meet your new best friend. You don’t have to leave Wolfy behind... In 'Pets & Sidekicks' your companions level up with you!

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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Emberashh" data-source="post: 9245777" data-attributes="member: 7040941">And what are those aims? Having a specially curated plot thats simultaneously as compelling as any tv show but also doesn't feel like you're being railroaded?Shouldn't have to be pointed out that that is patently ridiculous, and no amount of "collaborative storytelling" shtick says otherwise; its a lot like saying a customer is collaborating with a Chef on a meal by ordering a bunch of crap that isn't on the menu whilst expecting to still use the 50% off coupon.But even if we step back from hyperbole, the collaboration angle is just weak. Sure a player can pitch story directions and seeds, but that still puts the burden of creation on the GM, and its entirely uncalled for to say the GM is doing something wrong if they fail to do so, or even just decide not to. A player whose actually collaborating in a fair way is going to be creating, and driving, most of the experience themselves.And that makes sense. Its not a secret that being a good player means being proactive, curious, and flexible; not so coincidentally the same fundamental qualities asked of improv players. But of course, it also has to be said that the whole assumption underlying this is that the player is coming to the table with a story, and thats never been a good idea to begin with. If you've already got a story, just write a book.It has to be said too that while your PBTAs and FATEs and what not are held up to combat this, you can also just do sandboxes in more typical games and start the game as nobodies, like basically every cRPG that doesn't force a specific character on you figured out decades ago.That simple fact is what highlights how deep in the weeds this culture stuff gets. You don't need a brand new game to stop these problems, just stop trying to force a story to happen. If the game isn't compelling enough on its own to just play for its own sake, find a better game to play. And if you still want to see a story happen, learn improv and start actually collaborating, don't just throw in 2 cents and demand the GM to deliver the other 98. And don't you dare start complaining about how the sausage is made. If you want to actually collaborate, you don't have the luxury of being merely an audience member.Rules systems, meanwhile, can be designed to help this along. A suitably compelling game system will do so with ease, and as much as people like to complain about it, 5e is such a game. So is DCC, LFRPG, PF2E, GURPS, COC, BRP/Runequest, and scores of others. You might not get TV show plotlines, but these are games; we don't need to copy other narrative mediums.And so are your PBTAs and BITD and all that, for the record. The key difference is mostly that where other games drive interesting stories by being compelling interactive experiences, these narrative games do it by just directly injecting microstories into your improv. Both are fine, and ultimately neither is nearly as fun trying to force a story than they are just playing them and enjoying them for what they are.</blockquote>

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