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A neotrad TTRPG design manifesto
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<blockquote data-quote="hawkeyefan" data-source="post: 9245885" data-attributes="member: 6785785"><p>I think it’s far more hamfisted to assume that all games are identical.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>There are in fact RPGs designed and intended to be played a specific way. Some of these RPGs work quite differently from one another.</p><p></p><p>Not every RPG is intended to be hammered and molded into whatever experience the players want. Some people may choose to do this, but that doesn’t mean that’s how the game was designed.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I don’t expect that there’s any evidence I can provide that will satisfy you, is there? I mean, if you haven’t seen examples of this kind of stuff in RPGs and here on EN World and similar places of discussion, then I don’t really know what to tell you.</p><p></p><p>I can say that I have absolutely been that GM myself. I’ve ignored player cues or outright requests in order to keep the game focused on what I wanted it to be focused on. This was mostly in my earlier days of GMing, and mostly with trad type games. I didn’t have exposure to the variety of games that I now have. It wasn’t done with malice or any kind of ill intent… it was mostly done from lack of understanding. </p><p></p><p>Honestly, that’s when my group largely shifted to a more neotrad approach, though we never would have called it that… this was years before the term was invented. But there was a significant shift that we made and it resulted in more enjoyable play. </p><p></p><p>This is why I reject your claim that there are no differences. In my experience, there clearly are.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I don’t agree with that at all. Theory aside, at a practical level, design decisions of these sorts will shape the player experience.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I realize that you only get so verbose because your thoughts are so complex… but if you don’t consider this worthwhile, then why spill as much virtual ink as you have?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I don’t think anyone has said that the GM is doing anything wrong. I think that largely depends on player expectations and what kind of experience the GM has pitched.</p><p></p><p>It’s really only a problem if the GM pitches a neotrad game and then delivers a trad experience. Or vice versa.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This is a pretty bold claim. Again, plenty of games do this, whether it’s the players having story ideas or the GM. Or, as is incredibly often the case, the designers of a prewritten adventure.</p><p></p><p>It’s a huge swath of RPGing that you’re describing as a bad idea. While also somehow implying that all games are the same.</p><p></p><p>I’m really struggling to understand your point. It seems to amount to “I don’t like neotrad play so it should not exist”… but it can’t be that simple or you’d have managed to boil it down to one sentence.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>No, I wasn’t talking about that. I’m talking about a GM working with each player to find out what they want the game to be about, and then working to deliver that game. The players are expected to have their own goals and the GM works them into the game.</p><p></p><p>I assure you this is a real thing… I’ve done it! Very often.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="hawkeyefan, post: 9245885, member: 6785785"] I think it’s far more hamfisted to assume that all games are identical. There are in fact RPGs designed and intended to be played a specific way. Some of these RPGs work quite differently from one another. Not every RPG is intended to be hammered and molded into whatever experience the players want. Some people may choose to do this, but that doesn’t mean that’s how the game was designed. I don’t expect that there’s any evidence I can provide that will satisfy you, is there? I mean, if you haven’t seen examples of this kind of stuff in RPGs and here on EN World and similar places of discussion, then I don’t really know what to tell you. I can say that I have absolutely been that GM myself. I’ve ignored player cues or outright requests in order to keep the game focused on what I wanted it to be focused on. This was mostly in my earlier days of GMing, and mostly with trad type games. I didn’t have exposure to the variety of games that I now have. It wasn’t done with malice or any kind of ill intent… it was mostly done from lack of understanding. Honestly, that’s when my group largely shifted to a more neotrad approach, though we never would have called it that… this was years before the term was invented. But there was a significant shift that we made and it resulted in more enjoyable play. This is why I reject your claim that there are no differences. In my experience, there clearly are. I don’t agree with that at all. Theory aside, at a practical level, design decisions of these sorts will shape the player experience. I realize that you only get so verbose because your thoughts are so complex… but if you don’t consider this worthwhile, then why spill as much virtual ink as you have? I don’t think anyone has said that the GM is doing anything wrong. I think that largely depends on player expectations and what kind of experience the GM has pitched. It’s really only a problem if the GM pitches a neotrad game and then delivers a trad experience. Or vice versa. This is a pretty bold claim. Again, plenty of games do this, whether it’s the players having story ideas or the GM. Or, as is incredibly often the case, the designers of a prewritten adventure. It’s a huge swath of RPGing that you’re describing as a bad idea. While also somehow implying that all games are the same. I’m really struggling to understand your point. It seems to amount to “I don’t like neotrad play so it should not exist”… but it can’t be that simple or you’d have managed to boil it down to one sentence. No, I wasn’t talking about that. I’m talking about a GM working with each player to find out what they want the game to be about, and then working to deliver that game. The players are expected to have their own goals and the GM works them into the game. I assure you this is a real thing… I’ve done it! Very often. [/QUOTE]
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