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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Indaarys" data-source="post: 9245983" data-attributes="member: 7040941">This really does just reinforce my point. Did and do we really need "new" games just because a lot of RPGs (re: virtually all of them, even the better ones, given the clear denial that half or even more of the point is improv) are terrible at actually teaching how to play and run them?The differences you noted are independent of any particular game. You're playing differently and engaging with improv differently. It is entirely immaterial whether its 5e, Shadowrun, or Monsterhearts that you're playing. There are no design decisions being discussed. Just nebulous player behaviors. Not finding the subject particularly valuable has nothing to do with the willingness to talk about it. Making that point, in fact, is a valid approach, and trying to say I shouldn't be bothering most certainly isn't a valid response. Idk about you, but even in my own topics I'd rather have a bunch of people disagreeing with me (as has happened) than a bunch of yes men generating no interesting thought whatsoever. Its heavily implied, if not outright stated, when we throw up an example of a GM not delivering a bespoke narrative for a player, for whatever reason, and call that problem. Case in point. Do we need a new game to just talk to each other and be clear about what we're there for? Plenty of games are obscure and played by practically no one. You'll have to be more specific if you're wanting to offer counter examples. And a prewritten adventure is an entirely different idea altogether. The entire point of one is so nobody has to do any writing or pitching. Just open the module and follow along. Whether or not it ends up being a good experience is seldom on the GM or the Players, short of them screwing the pooch something fierce. I for example have never had, seen, nor run a bad experience with Curse of Strahd, but I have seen and observed TOA go sideways, to no fault of anybody at the table.The subtle snark aside, the point is that the problems that are supposed to be solved by a nebulous "new" game are all things that are, 1, highly assumptive of the persons who will be playing, and 2, problems easily solved in already existing games by just shifting how they're engaged with. A Session Zero solves the vast bulk of these issues, as does not cheating. You can apply both of these methods to any game. That is what I was communicating by noting that the otherizing of these ideas as "neotrad" is hamfisted, as no new game is actually being produced by it. The point of noting that is to make the case that we don't really need to try so hard to make stories happen. There is a god awful lot of stress and effort being had in the hobby over that, and its really self defeating, which is what I was relating about how I can burn myself out on video games doing the same thing.</blockquote>

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