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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Emberashh" data-source="post: 9246155" data-attributes="member: 7040941">Yes, it is. The only cases where that doesn't apply is when Fantasy isn't a part of the game (as we see with most Sports as well as classical games like Go), or at minimum is weak to the point of non-existence. (Chess)And to be clear, this is what I mean by Fantasy:[ATTACH=full]343922[/ATTACH]And in fact, this whole section of Elements of Game Design is extraordinarily apropros to this discussion. Im going to put the rest of it in a quote block, highly recommend reading it:Very important to note in the above passages that no distinctions are made between video games, board games, visual novels, and others. Game design is game design.On the contrary, its very relevant to all of tthose. You might be picking up on consistency violations and, correctly, asserting them as different from ludonarrative dissonance, but that doesn't make LN irrelevant to these games, as those games are not inherently lacking a narrative.In such games, LN is being caused by the player violating their own narrative. Eg, in a dungeon crawler, the point of the game might be to utilize strategy and/or tactics in decision making, as the experience is meant to be stategic and/or tactical. A player screaming Leroy Jenkins and just mindlessly attacking things will violate that experience, and when the game can't handle it, LN occurs.Likewise in Story Now, LN arises from the same sort of behavior, just applied towards whatever narrative is being formed through play. If you're playing a bunch of diplomats off to secure a trade deal, and one guy decided to, instead of being a diplomat as originally understood, have his character get drunk, assassinate the King, and try to install himself as the new Emperor, thats LN.Its actually pretty neat you picked those specific examples, as they're games where LN is actually a far worse problem than others, as LN typically is recognized as something that happens in the interface between a player playing the game and the player understanding the story being told.In these games, LN is not only doing that for the one player, but for everyone one else.That is just you doubling down on saying LN is video game specific, when it isn't, while inappropriately conflating LN issues with a rules violation in a sports game, which is about as apples to oranges as it gets.Its like disputing that the Sky is Blue by incorrectly asserting that the Ground is Cranberry. You're not only incorrect but not even talking about the same thing I was.The tone and continued doubling down on otherizing something into belonging strictly to a design space you have decided to ignore, for no good or even stated reason, says otherwise.</blockquote>

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