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<blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 9246439" data-attributes="member: 6696971"><p>Alright just a few things and then we're almost surely done talking. I'm not interested in this particular brand of back and forth nor this conversational style.</p><p></p><p>1) This looks like bait. I have no idea what in the world you're even talking about here. Who is "otherizing" (is this a novel form of "othering" that I'm not familiar with...given that we're seeing novel definitions and uses of terms left and right, I'd actually like to know) what here? Me?</p><p></p><p>What am I "othering" (I'm going to use that term because I understand it) here?</p><p></p><p>My contributions to this thread have been <strong>explaining and defending Neotrad play against incorrect claims about it and aspersions against it despite the fact that I don't engage with the play culture nor the systems that support it. I'm quite happy that folks have an ability to engage with this novel play style and systemization and I'd like it if it was understood-at-large (rather than distorted and that distortion aspersed)</strong>.</p><p></p><p>So what are you on about with the above statement?</p><p></p><p>2) Honestly, I have no idea what you're talking about with Ludonarrative Dissonance. Its not a concept I engage with much at all. Here is my brief understanding of it and my later contact with it in the TTRPG space:</p><p></p><p>a) The original Bioshock blog post that introduced the concept which lamented the unfortunate, jarring relationship between the non-interactive, game-experience-driving metaplot which the trajectory of play is captured by and the mechanically-interactive components of gameplay.</p><p></p><p>b) The Alexandrian and others employment of the term in order to generate an edition warring hitpiece (dissociative mechanics) based on anchoring priors that misunderstand or misrepresent any game design (and <em>cloud </em>< > <em>box </em>relationship to borrow Baker's concepts) that isn't Purist for System, process-simulation like Runequest or Rolemaster.</p><p></p><p></p><p>That is the extent of my understanding with and engagement with the concept. The (a) that pertains to "Story Before" metaplot driving play trajectory and the potential for disconnection with the players perception of their role and ability to drive play by interacting with their levers and widgets and the extrapolation of (b) (which looked like both a bastardization of the original concept and clearly motivated reasoning to wrap agitation and anger in a housing of rationale).</p><p></p><p> That is my contact with the concept. Any "game studies in secondary/specialty education" or blog posts or nexus of conversation that extended the topic? I have no contact with that nor clue about.</p><p></p><p>3) I'm not getting into the rest of your post; not the content nor your approach to conversation nor your conception of what player-side subversion of best practices might look like for Story Now games (not that you can even get into that without knowing the actual game in question...having a fundamental crisis of faith or duty and going from a priest to heretic or a kingsguard to kingslayer might be entirely appropriate...it depends on the game in question...like Dogs in the Vineyard engages exactly with the former while My Life With Master engages exactly with the latter).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Manbearcat, post: 9246439, member: 6696971"] Alright just a few things and then we're almost surely done talking. I'm not interested in this particular brand of back and forth nor this conversational style. 1) This looks like bait. I have no idea what in the world you're even talking about here. Who is "otherizing" (is this a novel form of "othering" that I'm not familiar with...given that we're seeing novel definitions and uses of terms left and right, I'd actually like to know) what here? Me? What am I "othering" (I'm going to use that term because I understand it) here? My contributions to this thread have been [B]explaining and defending Neotrad play against incorrect claims about it and aspersions against it despite the fact that I don't engage with the play culture nor the systems that support it. I'm quite happy that folks have an ability to engage with this novel play style and systemization and I'd like it if it was understood-at-large (rather than distorted and that distortion aspersed)[/B]. So what are you on about with the above statement? 2) Honestly, I have no idea what you're talking about with Ludonarrative Dissonance. Its not a concept I engage with much at all. Here is my brief understanding of it and my later contact with it in the TTRPG space: a) The original Bioshock blog post that introduced the concept which lamented the unfortunate, jarring relationship between the non-interactive, game-experience-driving metaplot which the trajectory of play is captured by and the mechanically-interactive components of gameplay. b) The Alexandrian and others employment of the term in order to generate an edition warring hitpiece (dissociative mechanics) based on anchoring priors that misunderstand or misrepresent any game design (and [I]cloud [/I]< > [I]box [/I]relationship to borrow Baker's concepts) that isn't Purist for System, process-simulation like Runequest or Rolemaster. That is the extent of my understanding with and engagement with the concept. The (a) that pertains to "Story Before" metaplot driving play trajectory and the potential for disconnection with the players perception of their role and ability to drive play by interacting with their levers and widgets and the extrapolation of (b) (which looked like both a bastardization of the original concept and clearly motivated reasoning to wrap agitation and anger in a housing of rationale). That is my contact with the concept. Any "game studies in secondary/specialty education" or blog posts or nexus of conversation that extended the topic? I have no contact with that nor clue about. 3) I'm not getting into the rest of your post; not the content nor your approach to conversation nor your conception of what player-side subversion of best practices might look like for Story Now games (not that you can even get into that without knowing the actual game in question...having a fundamental crisis of faith or duty and going from a priest to heretic or a kingsguard to kingslayer might be entirely appropriate...it depends on the game in question...like Dogs in the Vineyard engages exactly with the former while My Life With Master engages exactly with the latter). [/QUOTE]
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