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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Composer99" data-source="post: 9246491" data-attributes="member: 7030042">At this point I have to say you're also coming across as a tad self-contradictory. The following:seems to contradict:[Emphasis mine.]If "there are better mechanics ... or worse mechanics" for achieving a particular gameplay experience, how then is it "wholly out of bounds" to suggest that "mechanics that provide greater player authority" in the context of neotrad gameplay just are better than mechanics that don't?[HR][/HR]If anything, your remark, "Pointing out that the experience we are choosing to design for is no better or worse than another isn’t threadcrapping" comes across as doubling down on trying to make the thread about validating trad play instead of being a manifesto for neotrad design, or at least stopping up any discussion on how to further neotrad design until trad play has been suitably validated. Which, again, still comes across as threadcrapping.To that, I would say:<ol> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Trad play doesn't need validation on this thread - I am sure there are many robust defences for trad play, and it remains the most popular style of play by far, suggesting it remains well beloved!</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">It's hardly possible to draw contrasts between neotrad play and trad play without running the risk of coming across as dunking on one or the other types of play. Since this thread is "A Neotrad TTRPG Design Manifesto", it should hardly seem surprising or alarming that trad play comes out the worse for wear. One would expect that, in a thread titled "A Trad TTRPG Design Manifesto", neotrad or storygame play would be on the short end of the stick (as it were). For instance, were someone to ask me to explain at length why I don't care for country music (Johnny Cash excepted, of course), I rather expect that my explanation would - despite my best efforts - come across as slighting the genre to someone who especially loves it.</li> </ol>[HR][/HR]Are you, perhaps, perceiving other remarks on this thread as constituting some kind of attack on trad gameplay over and above drawing contrasts with a view to promoting neotrad designs, and reacting accordingly? That's what I'm getting from:I guess what I'm not sure about is, if you believe someone else is treating this thread as a chance to re-litigate arguments belittling trad gameplay, why are you taking the bait? Is it really worth the trouble?(Edit to reword: Having made that last statement, I therefore feel I should probably not pursue this line of discussion any further, because I would be... maybe not threadcrapping, but surely bringing the thread even further off topic, which would be on me. I reworded this final parenthetical remark because on reflection I think the original version was coming across as passive-aggressive, which I should like to avoid. Hopefully this reworded version is better!)</blockquote>

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