Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
A neotrad TTRPG design manifesto
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="clearstream" data-source="post: 9247299" data-attributes="member: 71699"><p>We'll need to keep in mind our differences on that. Consistent with my focus on a design trend, I use Salen and Zimmerman's definition that games are a subset of play; most distinctly separated out by rules.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I certainly agree that rules matter in different ways to different players, as well as in some similar ways to most players. It's hard to draw a boundary around what play it might be possible for a set of constitutive and regulatory rules to facilitate.</p><p></p><p>I'm directing thought more toward motives and predicted consequences for TTRPG designers incorporating mechanical innovations from indie-games. One such mechanic, appearing everywhere, is that of flags. How is play under the YZE made different by their incorporation into the text? Assuming that players are able to make their play to any significant extent about them, it drags their play to a different place.</p><p></p><p>I agree with Baker that GNS is inadequate to describe this. I don't observe the new rules having some consequence via creative agendas. The play itself is reconstituted. (And I've noticed GMing norms stifling that.)</p><p></p><p>Regarding what is settled gamefully, and what playfully. To my reading your example showed that players may care about immersing in character and incrementally revealing a story. Games are play where that follows rules. Those pursuits matter to <em>them</em>, it is an experience <em>they</em> desire to have; voluntarily opting into. A friend finds his daughters approach play the same way that you described.</p><p></p><p>One could perhaps immerse in character and incrementally reveal a story without following rules. So what are these rules like? You have to do X to reveal increment Y. (Be in the right place. Make a perception check.) You have to be someone like this. (Be a knight, be a vampire.)</p><p></p><p>Why opt into those rules? And as a designer, why add innovations from indie-games to them? Why would that make the resultant rules more appealing? (Better enable players to explore and express in rule-following play what matters to them.)</p><p></p><p>I felt that we ended up talking across each other. Hopefully the above can ameliorate that to some extent.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="clearstream, post: 9247299, member: 71699"] We'll need to keep in mind our differences on that. Consistent with my focus on a design trend, I use Salen and Zimmerman's definition that games are a subset of play; most distinctly separated out by rules. I certainly agree that rules matter in different ways to different players, as well as in some similar ways to most players. It's hard to draw a boundary around what play it might be possible for a set of constitutive and regulatory rules to facilitate. I'm directing thought more toward motives and predicted consequences for TTRPG designers incorporating mechanical innovations from indie-games. One such mechanic, appearing everywhere, is that of flags. How is play under the YZE made different by their incorporation into the text? Assuming that players are able to make their play to any significant extent about them, it drags their play to a different place. I agree with Baker that GNS is inadequate to describe this. I don't observe the new rules having some consequence via creative agendas. The play itself is reconstituted. (And I've noticed GMing norms stifling that.) Regarding what is settled gamefully, and what playfully. To my reading your example showed that players may care about immersing in character and incrementally revealing a story. Games are play where that follows rules. Those pursuits matter to [I]them[/I], it is an experience [I]they[/I] desire to have; voluntarily opting into. A friend finds his daughters approach play the same way that you described. One could perhaps immerse in character and incrementally reveal a story without following rules. So what are these rules like? You have to do X to reveal increment Y. (Be in the right place. Make a perception check.) You have to be someone like this. (Be a knight, be a vampire.) Why opt into those rules? And as a designer, why add innovations from indie-games to them? Why would that make the resultant rules more appealing? (Better enable players to explore and express in rule-following play what matters to them.) I felt that we ended up talking across each other. Hopefully the above can ameliorate that to some extent. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
A neotrad TTRPG design manifesto
Top