Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
A New Culture?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 7192069" data-attributes="member: 996"><p>It's not clear what playstyle you're contrasting with optimizing, here - I assume old-school 'skilled play?' </p><p></p><p>But 3.x certainly favored system mastery very heavily. </p><p></p><p>If anything, I feel like 4e <em>diminished</em> that particular conversation because its design was so heavily focused towards combat and balance</p></blockquote><p>... that optimized and non-optimized characters didn't experience such a huge gulf in effectiveness, so the two could co-exist without the former dominating. To the extent that the system masters could be satisfied with such modest 'rewards,' anyway - a lot of them /did/ stay with 3.5 and go to PF - sunk system-mastery investment, and greater intentionally built-in rewards for it, afterall.</p><p></p><p>Though the 'focus on combat' is also a thing that has always been with D&D, and one that 4e shifted away from in un-D&D-like manner, with Skill Challenges & Rituals. (Heck, 5e even retained rituals, sorta).</p><p> </p><p> Meh, if, in a general discussion of editions, you keep seeing 4e coming up more than all the others combined, primarily in the form of baseless criticism and pushing back against same, yeah, it's at least contaminated by lingering edition warring. </p><p></p><p> It's probably as much to do with the nature of the on-line medium as anything.</p><p></p><p> :sigh: See, that's edition warring, right there. There was no such dearth /relative/ to other editions of the game. 4e Skill Challenges, alone, integrated and mechanically supported non-combat more than other editions before or since. </p><p></p><p>What was missing? Formerly game-breaking spells were absent or nerfed. Non-adventuring skills were not given mechanical weight. (You want your character to be a blacksmith or a sailor or whatever, fine, take a background, and get a perk with a related adventuring skill.)</p><p></p><p> A rare and astute observation. Not only that, but they often correlate. Optimizing to a strong/interesting RP concept combines both. Go to an optimization forum and ask a question, and you'll immediate get OP mavins asking you 'what are you going for? 'what's the concept?'</p><p>[/QUOTE]</p>
[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 7192069, member: 996"] It's not clear what playstyle you're contrasting with optimizing, here - I assume old-school 'skilled play?' But 3.x certainly favored system mastery very heavily. If anything, I feel like 4e [I]diminished[/I] that particular conversation because its design was so heavily focused towards combat and balance[/quote] ... that optimized and non-optimized characters didn't experience such a huge gulf in effectiveness, so the two could co-exist without the former dominating. To the extent that the system masters could be satisfied with such modest 'rewards,' anyway - a lot of them /did/ stay with 3.5 and go to PF - sunk system-mastery investment, and greater intentionally built-in rewards for it, afterall. Though the 'focus on combat' is also a thing that has always been with D&D, and one that 4e shifted away from in un-D&D-like manner, with Skill Challenges & Rituals. (Heck, 5e even retained rituals, sorta). Meh, if, in a general discussion of editions, you keep seeing 4e coming up more than all the others combined, primarily in the form of baseless criticism and pushing back against same, yeah, it's at least contaminated by lingering edition warring. It's probably as much to do with the nature of the on-line medium as anything. :sigh: See, that's edition warring, right there. There was no such dearth /relative/ to other editions of the game. 4e Skill Challenges, alone, integrated and mechanically supported non-combat more than other editions before or since. What was missing? Formerly game-breaking spells were absent or nerfed. Non-adventuring skills were not given mechanical weight. (You want your character to be a blacksmith or a sailor or whatever, fine, take a background, and get a perk with a related adventuring skill.) A rare and astute observation. Not only that, but they often correlate. Optimizing to a strong/interesting RP concept combines both. Go to an optimization forum and ask a question, and you'll immediate get OP mavins asking you 'what are you going for? 'what's the concept?' [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
A New Culture?
Top