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Message: <blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 6682088" data-attributes="member: 6790260">Salient points. However, if I'm understanding you correctly, you're (essentially) saying that the most important reductions in complexity to 5e come down to:- fewer additions/subtractions- fewer bonus categories to rememberI'm a little...less enthused with the benefits of "bounded" accuracy than most (the numbers still scale quite a bit and still easily hit double-digits, which everyone assures me is the break-point for actual improvements in mental math) so I don't really know if I'd grant that as a kind of reduced complexity. Most rolls still boil down to 1d20+ability+(base value if appropriate)+(proficiency if appropriate)+(equipment)+(buff)+(circumstance), it's just that you don't have to do more addition within (equipment) or (buff), there's justone number. Sometimes. (After all, there ARE buffs that don't need Concentration, and there are lots of items that don't need attunement.)I can agree that in terms of memory-space and calculation, things are cut down. The removal of iterative attacks is certainly a help there, too. (Of course, my first response here is "why don't people add all their standard bonuses together beforehand, so it's the same work in essentially every system?" but maybe that's an unwarranted expectation.) I just...guess I feel like treating "game" complexity (what the rules tell you to do and how you monkey through them) and "math" complexity (the amount of calculation/boost-remembering you must do) as exactly the same thing is...eh. I don't want to throw accusations around. I just think that those things are significantly different, and referring to both of them as "complexity" makes them sound interchangeable when they really aren't. Grappling rules in 3e were esoteric at best, and frequently complained about, but (unless I'm mistaken) they didn't involve a lot of calculation per se. Just...complex enough that even for someone familiar with it a flowchart was extremely useful, if not required, to make sure you remembered all the steps. Similarly, roll-over vs. roll-under is not generally a matter of calculation-complexity, but having a mixture of both would definitely be an example of rules-complexity that was (largely) eliminated from d20 D&D.</blockquote>

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