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<blockquote data-quote="howandwhy99" data-source="post: 4754877" data-attributes="member: 3192">How can you take seriously an article that sources a Forge site for the definition of roleplaying games?&nbsp; That's ridiculous.&nbsp; The current sorry state of Wikipedia on RPGs has examples which go so far as to claim &quot;indie&quot; games are the first RPGs to actually include rules for roleplaying.&nbsp; ??? How do you square that?&nbsp; What have the rules we have been using for 35 years been about?&nbsp; The answer: Roleplay Simulation, of course.&nbsp; What roleplaying games have you ever played that included rules for players successfully characterizing their characters?&nbsp; Practically none exist.&nbsp; In my opinion, that site is a thinly veiled lie to misrepresent the hobby as storygames.&nbsp; Plain and simple. Please reread what I've been saying.&nbsp; They are storygames which are a kind of roleplaying game when using a very narrow definition of roleplaying.&nbsp; Specifically the one you hyperlink to above.&nbsp; They are not roleplaying games in relation to the design and play of RPGs for the tabletop hobby.I've played in dozens of different game systems.&nbsp; And I've run quite a few.&nbsp; I've been involved in LARPs, both boffer and theatre games like Mind's Eye Theatre.&nbsp; I've have dozens of friends who are gamers and run and played in far more than what I've had direct involvement in.&nbsp; So yeah, I've been around for over twenty years running and playing roleplaying games.&nbsp; Ignorant bias and borrowed theorizing goes both ways.&nbsp; Defining RPGs as that site does is obvious bias to Forge-based philosophies.&nbsp; Roleplaying isn't and has almost always never been about characterizing one's character.&nbsp; It was about succeeding at what one was doing in the game world, in their role. Plain and simple.&nbsp; I don't know why you think I am theorizing here.&nbsp; The definition I am using is both historic to our hobby, factual outside our hobby, and has a long train of proof behind it in both tabletop RPG game design and it's obvious inspiration in computer RPGs.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="howandwhy99, post: 4754877, member: 3192"] How can you take seriously an article that sources a Forge site for the definition of roleplaying games? That's ridiculous. The current sorry state of Wikipedia on RPGs has examples which go so far as to claim "indie" games are the first RPGs to actually include rules for roleplaying. ??? How do you square that? What have the rules we have been using for 35 years been about? The answer: Roleplay Simulation, of course. What roleplaying games have you ever played that included rules for players successfully characterizing their characters? Practically none exist. In my opinion, that site is a thinly veiled lie to misrepresent the hobby as storygames. Plain and simple. Please reread what I've been saying. They are storygames which are a kind of roleplaying game when using a very narrow definition of roleplaying. Specifically the one you hyperlink to above. They are not roleplaying games in relation to the design and play of RPGs for the tabletop hobby. I've played in dozens of different game systems. And I've run quite a few. I've been involved in LARPs, both boffer and theatre games like Mind's Eye Theatre. I've have dozens of friends who are gamers and run and played in far more than what I've had direct involvement in. So yeah, I've been around for over twenty years running and playing roleplaying games. Ignorant bias and borrowed theorizing goes both ways. Defining RPGs as that site does is obvious bias to Forge-based philosophies. Roleplaying isn't and has almost always never been about characterizing one's character. It was about succeeding at what one was doing in the game world, in their role. Plain and simple. I don't know why you think I am theorizing here. The definition I am using is both historic to our hobby, factual outside our hobby, and has a long train of proof behind it in both tabletop RPG game design and it's obvious inspiration in computer RPGs. [/QUOTE]

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