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<blockquote data-quote="howandwhy99" data-source="post: 4754922" data-attributes="member: 3192">Okay, if you have to stretch so far as to hunt down AD&amp;D training rules to include AD&amp;D 1E under the rubric of your definition of roleplaying, that's deliberately missing the point.&nbsp; Don't you think?&nbsp; There are hundreds of rules in that game about roleplay simulation-defined roleplaying.&nbsp; I'm actually glad you could find one to include Dungeons &amp; Dragons in your subset as well.&nbsp; But do you really think the big defining game of our hobby is barely a roleplaying game?Yes, by the time the 80's got underway, the understanding of what roleplaying is in our hobby had started to be incorrectly defined.&nbsp; This was known to many of the people who designed games throughout that decade.&nbsp; But certainly not all.&nbsp; And people became quite confused as to what roleplaying was and is as you rightly point out.&nbsp; That doesn't change the truth that roleplaying game design and game play followed the definition of roleplaying I am using.&nbsp; Again, you seem to be confusing your purpose for playing RPGs with some believed &quot;objective&quot; and universal purpose for playing RPGs.&nbsp; Problem solving? Goal setting? The heuristic value of devising good strategies?&nbsp; These things cannot be done in Storygames.&nbsp; They can and have been done for decades in RPGs.&nbsp; Why try and claim only one kind of &quot;fun&quot; exists in roleplaying?&nbsp; Is this more equating of &quot;fun&quot; to character assumption (or what you call role assumption?)&nbsp; That's more advertising one's games as the &quot;funnest around&quot; in my opinion.&nbsp; I believe roleplaying in RPGs has a much broader definition than the one you're choosing to use.Also, I've went ahead and underlined a key passage in your text.&nbsp;&nbsp; Do you really think there is no learning going on in RPGs?&nbsp; That there is no improvement through practice of behavior?&nbsp; I don't know what kinds of games you have played, but you might be missing the boat.Please go back and read what I wrote before.&nbsp; I have never made the claim that any of what you are saying here is roleplaying.&nbsp; In fact, I state in your 10 examples how each is either a roleplaying or simulation game.&nbsp; In any case, what you are saying here is misrepresenting me.&nbsp; I have attempted to be very clear.&nbsp; How does any of what you are saying qualify as RPS?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="howandwhy99, post: 4754922, member: 3192"] Okay, if you have to stretch so far as to hunt down AD&D training rules to include AD&D 1E under the rubric of your definition of roleplaying, that's deliberately missing the point. Don't you think? There are hundreds of rules in that game about roleplay simulation-defined roleplaying. I'm actually glad you could find one to include Dungeons & Dragons in your subset as well. But do you really think the big defining game of our hobby is [I]barely[/I] a roleplaying game? Yes, by the time the 80's got underway, the understanding of what roleplaying is in our hobby had started to be incorrectly defined. This was known to many of the people who designed games throughout that decade. But certainly not all. And people became quite confused as to what roleplaying was and is as you rightly point out. That doesn't change the truth that roleplaying game design and game play followed the definition of roleplaying I am using. Again, you seem to be confusing your purpose for playing RPGs with some believed "objective" and universal purpose for playing RPGs. Problem solving? Goal setting? The heuristic value of devising good strategies? These things cannot be done in Storygames. They can and have been done for decades in RPGs. Why try and claim only one kind of "fun" exists in roleplaying? Is this more equating of "fun" to character assumption (or what you call role assumption?) That's more advertising one's games as the "funnest around" in my opinion. I believe roleplaying in RPGs has a much broader definition than the one you're choosing to use. Also, I've went ahead and underlined a key passage in your text. Do you really think there is no learning going on in RPGs? That there is no improvement through practice of behavior? I don't know what kinds of games you have played, but you might be missing the boat. Please go back and read what I wrote before. I have never made the claim that any of what you are saying here is roleplaying. In fact, I state in your 10 examples how each is either a roleplaying or simulation game. In any case, what you are saying here is misrepresenting me. I have attempted to be very clear. How does any of what you are saying qualify as RPS? [/QUOTE]

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