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<blockquote data-quote="DeJoker" data-source="post: 7231097" data-attributes="member: 6907519">Okay many professional athletes will tell you talent (attribute bonus) can only take you so far then skill must take over so to perhaps get this concept to work as you are suggesting why not do this.Raw Attribute Bonus (RAB) &lt;&lt; always round up -- necessary to reward someone for that max 20 attributeProficiency Bonus (PB) &lt;&lt; always round down -- keeps the RAW + Skill from getting to highNo Proficiency = RABProficiency..... = RAB + PB/2 (until PB &gt;= RAB then PB + RAB/2).......This way folks with a lot of Talent can still outclass a person with no Talent and training but only up to a point.+5 Max on Raw Talent+6 Max on Pure Skill+9 Max on Skill + TalentOkay that looks pretty good but as you pointed out Expertise at x2 is a bit much and while 1.5 seems viable it might not be quite enough with an Extreme Max of +12 at level 20So if you feel that is true then instead of having Expertise mess with the PB directly have it mess with the PB increment value which is currently = 2 + ([Level - 1] mod 4) Which equates out to about 2 + (1 for each 4 levels)So we decrease this for Expertise such that = 2 + ([Level - 1] mod 2) which also gives a smoother increase patternWhich equates out to about 2 + (1 for each 2 levels)The new maximum Proficiency Bonus is now +11 (at level 20) plus Max Attribute Bonus of +3 (at 20) makes the absolute Extreme Maximum Skill Bonus +14 at Level 20 with a 20 AttributeThis seems fine not too high but not to low it allows you to make a Nearly Impossible roll DC 30 with a 25% chance of success at Extreme Max Skill Bonus</blockquote>

[QUOTE="DeJoker, post: 7231097, member: 6907519"] Okay many professional athletes will tell you talent (attribute bonus) can only take you so far then skill must take over so to perhaps get this concept to work as you are suggesting why not do this. Raw Attribute Bonus (RAB) << always round up -- necessary to reward someone for that max 20 attribute Proficiency Bonus (PB) << always round down -- keeps the RAW + Skill from getting to high No Proficiency = RAB Proficiency..... = RAB + PB/2 (until PB >= RAB then PB + RAB/2) .......This way folks with a lot of Talent can still outclass a person with no Talent and training but only up to a point. +5 Max on Raw Talent +6 Max on Pure Skill +9 Max on Skill + Talent Okay that looks pretty good but as you pointed out Expertise at x2 is a bit much and while 1.5 seems viable it might not be quite enough with an Extreme Max of +12 at level 20 So if you feel that is true then instead of having Expertise mess with the PB directly have it mess with the PB increment value which is currently = 2 + ([Level - 1] mod 4) Which equates out to about 2 + (1 for each 4 levels) So we decrease this for Expertise such that = 2 + ([Level - 1] mod 2) which also gives a smoother increase pattern Which equates out to about 2 + (1 for each 2 levels) The new maximum Proficiency Bonus is now +11 (at level 20) plus Max Attribute Bonus of +3 (at 20) makes the absolute Extreme Maximum Skill Bonus +14 at Level 20 with a 20 Attribute This seems fine not too high but not to low it allows you to make a Nearly Impossible roll DC 30 with a 25% chance of success at Extreme Max Skill Bonus [/QUOTE]

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