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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Crazy Jerome" data-source="post: 5732905" data-attributes="member: 54877">That is the breakdown I suggested last time I commented the level pacing (albeit with slightly different tier names). So naturally, I like the revised version. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> Seriously, I do think that the pacing expressed there is closer to the average of how people see it. This would be especially true if levels 1-5 are allowed to have some grit, similar to earlier versions, while the "Heroic" tier would start characters off about as competent as 1st level 4E characters. Heroic and Paragon are pretty well balanced now. So essentially keep the character they have now, but shift them up 5 levels, to at once shorten Epic to something more manageable and open up space for the grit at start.  The "Adventurer" tier becomes the 5E versions of 3E E6, and should include optional rules for continuing to play in that manner without picking up the supplements. This makes it a true stand-alone game. Accordingly, it should have druids, bards, etc, not just the big four (or whatever the equivalent of those classes is in 5E terms--e.g. roles, power sources, etc.). Finally, I had advocated from the first hint of the 4E tiers that the game be packaged and sold by tiers, instead of by cross sections of classes and monsters. I think they didn't do that because they knew that Epic wouldn't sell. Well, I think in the 4 tier breakdown, you can sell the first two tiers as viable stand-alone games, and then package the last two together in high level supplements. Paragon there has enough attraction to bring Epic along with it. And after all, those games don't have to repeat all the DMG-type advice, merely supplement it. Boxed sets are too expensive to risk on the latter two tiers. The one big problem, of course, is the repackage idea for those that want it. Here is a place where they take a chance and make that option officially available via the 5E CB. Then they announce from the beginning that the printed version of the full game, PHB, DMG, and MM will be coming out at launch year +3 or +4. These will be the best of the material in the CB, errata handled, etc.</blockquote>

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