Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
A new Tier System for 5E
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="DEFCON 1" data-source="post: 5732984" data-attributes="member: 7006"><p>The E6 idea was my thought as well. Enough levels to last a while and give you a sense of actual advancement... but not so many that it becomes too cumbersome for a starter set. 5 levels works out well.</p><p></p><p>As far as the druid/bard idea... that was my reasoning for putting forth the idea of not necessarily having 'classes' in Adventurer tier, but rather selecting role and power source. This gives you a couple advantages. First, you can cut down on the number of powers needed in Adventurer Tier by having ones that cut across ALL roles of a particular source, or ALL sources of a particular role. So for instance Power Strike might be a Level 1 Martial Encounter power any Martial role can take (martial defender, martial ranged striker, martial melee leader etc.) Or Pinning Strike might be a Ranged Controller At-Will power that any power source can take (and each power source can fluff it in whatever manner makes sense).</p><p></p><p>Second, by opening it up that way and not going the Fallen Lands route of the standard Fighter / Cleric / Rogue / Wizard... you aren't forcing a particular role or a particular power source on someone. If you wanted to be a Divine character, you'd either have to play the cleric or wait for a supplement to come out that had other divine options in it. Because that Adventurer Tier box set wouldn't be able to include all of them without making the set too darn big.</p><p> </p><p></p><p></p><p>This way my reasoning for removing the Paragon Tier and going straight from Heroic to Epic at 16, ending at 20. As many current Epic players have discovered... Levels 21-30 have just so many crazy things that are so difficult to balance that it's no wonder that Epic is more difficult to sell to people. I know I sometimes feel overwhelmed by my players and they're only in the middle of Paragon currently. That would be even more true if they had to buy Epic Tier over and above 10 levels of Paragon Tier. By removing those last 10 levels and dropping Epic to 16-20... you're only asking players to buy one more smaller level set following the purchase of Heroic... which is more likely to get players to impulsively do so than the 15 levels of a combined Paragon/Epic.</p><p></p><p>A player receives the Starter Set as a gift and learns to play. If he likes it, he'll buy Heroic to advance the characters even further than he originally thought. Then, after playing the game at Heroic for another 6 months to a year and finally reaches level 15... he then sees the last box set to pick up is only 5 levels of Epic material, and can decide if he wants to take the plunge and finish the campaign off. That to me is a much more likely and sellable scenario to people than having that same player finish Heroic and then seeing a box that includes <em>15</em> more levels to play. I suspect that player would be more likely just not bother buying it at all at that point and go back instead to playing Adventurer and Heroic Tier again (considering those 15 levels of Paragon/Epic would encompass a full doubling of campaign time after that point.</p><p></p><p>By making that third set Epic-only from 16-20 (rather than Paragon-Epic from 16-30)... you have more space in the box to include more stuff and more mechanics and more complexity to make the 5 levels of Epic truly different than Heroic and Adventurer (which granted is really important if you want to make Epic worth buying since its only 5 levels of material-- you'd want extensive and <em>really cool</em> material in it.) You'd have a much harder time of trying to do two different Tiers of complexity in a single box if you went up to 30 I think. But that's just me.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="DEFCON 1, post: 5732984, member: 7006"] The E6 idea was my thought as well. Enough levels to last a while and give you a sense of actual advancement... but not so many that it becomes too cumbersome for a starter set. 5 levels works out well. As far as the druid/bard idea... that was my reasoning for putting forth the idea of not necessarily having 'classes' in Adventurer tier, but rather selecting role and power source. This gives you a couple advantages. First, you can cut down on the number of powers needed in Adventurer Tier by having ones that cut across ALL roles of a particular source, or ALL sources of a particular role. So for instance Power Strike might be a Level 1 Martial Encounter power any Martial role can take (martial defender, martial ranged striker, martial melee leader etc.) Or Pinning Strike might be a Ranged Controller At-Will power that any power source can take (and each power source can fluff it in whatever manner makes sense). Second, by opening it up that way and not going the Fallen Lands route of the standard Fighter / Cleric / Rogue / Wizard... you aren't forcing a particular role or a particular power source on someone. If you wanted to be a Divine character, you'd either have to play the cleric or wait for a supplement to come out that had other divine options in it. Because that Adventurer Tier box set wouldn't be able to include all of them without making the set too darn big. This way my reasoning for removing the Paragon Tier and going straight from Heroic to Epic at 16, ending at 20. As many current Epic players have discovered... Levels 21-30 have just so many crazy things that are so difficult to balance that it's no wonder that Epic is more difficult to sell to people. I know I sometimes feel overwhelmed by my players and they're only in the middle of Paragon currently. That would be even more true if they had to buy Epic Tier over and above 10 levels of Paragon Tier. By removing those last 10 levels and dropping Epic to 16-20... you're only asking players to buy one more smaller level set following the purchase of Heroic... which is more likely to get players to impulsively do so than the 15 levels of a combined Paragon/Epic. A player receives the Starter Set as a gift and learns to play. If he likes it, he'll buy Heroic to advance the characters even further than he originally thought. Then, after playing the game at Heroic for another 6 months to a year and finally reaches level 15... he then sees the last box set to pick up is only 5 levels of Epic material, and can decide if he wants to take the plunge and finish the campaign off. That to me is a much more likely and sellable scenario to people than having that same player finish Heroic and then seeing a box that includes [I]15[/I] more levels to play. I suspect that player would be more likely just not bother buying it at all at that point and go back instead to playing Adventurer and Heroic Tier again (considering those 15 levels of Paragon/Epic would encompass a full doubling of campaign time after that point. By making that third set Epic-only from 16-20 (rather than Paragon-Epic from 16-30)... you have more space in the box to include more stuff and more mechanics and more complexity to make the 5 levels of Epic truly different than Heroic and Adventurer (which granted is really important if you want to make Epic worth buying since its only 5 levels of material-- you'd want extensive and [I]really cool[/I] material in it.) You'd have a much harder time of trying to do two different Tiers of complexity in a single box if you went up to 30 I think. But that's just me. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
A new Tier System for 5E
Top