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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Upper_Krust" data-source="post: 5734802" data-attributes="member: 326">Howdy Votan! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />I kinda liked 1E Dragons better than 2E Dragons though, the design (of Dragons) was a lot more elegant, plus it made them relatively unique monsters.  Not sure I quite agree. PCs should be able to kill Orcus and Bane, it should just be laterally* FAR more difficult than it currently is (with Orcus anyway).*By laterally more difficult, I don't mean increasing the personal power of Orcus - if anything he should be lower in level. Instead I mean that when PCs face off against Orcus and his forces it shouldn't be handled with bitesize encounters that the PCs can (relatively easily) handle.I mean if you were 'the King' (of somewhere), would you just be waiting to take on your adversaries ALONE (!?) when you can call upon armies of millions, and dozens of champions of your own. Of course not.Yes you would try to soften up any attacking force before engaging it, but you would keep the best of the best as your personal bodyguard.A final fight against Orcus should have involved Orcus + half a dozen Anti-heroes (Quah-Nomog, Sleepless, Tersoth, Klavikus etc.) S'mon made a good point (which I'll address shortly) in that those Drow were meant to be Lolth's Abyssal Elite.But my initial point still stands about a loss of verisimilitude in general with 4E.I comment in my review of the E-series (4E) modules that one of the mistakes is using the same monster only with more levels (Glabrezu is the specific example that springs to mind). Instead monsters should be rank demoted if they are being levelled up.Glabrezu = Elite 23 = Standard 27 = Minion 35...rather than making another Elite version thats Level 26 or whatever.</blockquote>

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