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Message: <blockquote data-quote="DEFCON 1" data-source="post: 5736014" data-attributes="member: 7006">I'm with Jhaelen on this.  Complexity in terms of the mechanics of character generation should not be just tied to the Tier of the game.  But like what Mearls talked about in his Legends & Lore column... I think having complexity modules that allow you to add or remove complexity to your characters from the get-go is the way to go.So if you really don't want to play with skills in your game, you could take them out of the game entirely (including the first tier Starter Set).  If you didn't want to use miniatures, same thing.  Or feats.  Or magic items. (etc. etc.)  But I do think that having the game set up to not use skills in the first tier but then have them arrive in the second or third tier and in many ways completely change how your character plays, is kind of counter-productive.  A major character generation rules mechanic such as that should either be used for a campaign or not.The only suggestion in terms of complexity that I would possible add into a game once the campaign changes tiers is with regards to nothing the PCs have, but rather the mechanics of the sort of encounters and stories that a specific tier a DM would begin to use.  So for instance... in the Heroic Tier boxed set, the rules for 3D combat could be presented.  You wouldn't want that in Adventurer because it'd be hard enough to get new players comfortable with the 2D tabletop combat... but come Heroic and the use of flying/swimming monsters and PC abilities... rules to adjudicate that in Heroic make sense.For the Paragon Tier boxed set?  Mass Combat rules.  Not something that I would probably want or need to see in Adventurer or Heroic Tier... but is definitely something I could see being a cornerstone of Paragon.  Leading armies or nations against other nations.  Similarly... rules, advice or mechanics on the attacking or usurping the gods and taking their place in the pantheon is something that you'd only need for the Epic Tier boxed set. These kinds of game-changing storyline encounters (especially if they have their own game mechanics associated with them) are the only additions I might add to the "complexity" of the game when it comes to changing tier.  Because these new rules help emphasize how the breadth of the campaign has changed once the PCs have reached them.</blockquote>

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