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Message: <blockquote data-quote="akbearfoot" data-source="post: 4179793" data-attributes="member: 33560">I don't like any of the in game effects that cause permanent damage to a character or his gear.  I'm just not that kind of player.Level loss from dyingpermenent level drains.  Stat draining in low magic games where restoration is nearly impossible to find.  Sundering players magic items.  Mordenkainens disjunction.  Item saving throws if the player rolls a 1.Characters having below average hitpoints(not counting con adjustments)Creatures that destroy PCs items.Save or die effects.All of these things detract from a games fun imo.  In my experiences characters don't buy their magic gear and then enjoy watching it get destroyed.  They also don't work hard to survive dungeons and gain levels only to get hit by an unlucky crit and then lose a level and possibly several months of real life time investment.  Characters who roleplay their transactions or customize their items with neat component or special looks suffer even more from stuff like this....Huh the sword I quested for 2 years for made out of the backbone of a shadow dragon that we tracked down IN the plane of shadow that nearly killed us all is gone for good now because I rolled a 1?It's not a matter of removing threats from a game. Because fighting still has a lot of potential to kill players.  I view D&D as a team sport, with the players all working together to achieve goals, and the DM designing an immersive adventure and giving us the tools we need to have fun.  With the DM occasionally having fun beating on the PCs or even killing a few of us to make sure we know there are consequences if we play sloppy.  The penalty for dieing is not being able to do anything until your PCs can go bring you back to life.  Lets face it, being dead and watching a combat happen and not being able to participate SUCKS, especially if it is a long fight or a pivotal one where the players worked a long time to get to the showdown.  It also probably lowers everyone elses morale because they are gonna be feeling sorry for the guy that died, unless they are the elitist types whos idea of fun is being in the spotlight 24/7.It's hard not to take it personally when you invest a lot of time into gaining something for your character and then it gets destroyed.  Afterall the DM is the one who put it there in the first place, or allowed it to be there in the case of modules.I'd rather retire a character that I spent months developing and make a new character with no background or ties to a party at the same level as the rest of the group then end up being a level behind, with nothing to show for it.  Especially if I died from unlucky rolls, or because I was trying to save another character who was using poor tactics.Same goes for characters that rolls hitpoints and end up rolling several low rolls.  PCs are supposed to be heroic, and modules these days assume your characters can stand up to a certain amount of punishment....a fighter with below average hitpoints is a liability and unless they enjoy playing lame-ducks will not have fun when he's having to beg for heals all the time during combat and costing the druids and clerics and bards their valuable actions.I played in a game where we spent like 4 levels without getting to a town to spend our cash, then got to a resting point and everyone upgraded their gear and spent all their money, then 1 day out of town the DM threw some magic item destroying thing at us that was 3 or 4 CR higher than us and required DC 25+ saves every time we got hit or our armor was destroyed.  It destroyed 50% of our party's wealth...and had no loot.  Yay fun fun fun!</blockquote>

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