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<blockquote data-quote="Balesir" data-source="post: 5483693" data-attributes="member: 27160">Yeah, been there, done that <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink&nbsp; &nbsp; ;)"&nbsp; data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />&nbsp; By the time you have 'fixed' all that (long) list, though, you are essentially playing a different game.&nbsp; Nothing wrong with that in itself whatsoever, but the fact that this has been the de-facto standard for D&amp;D has led to a confused situation where, in the minds of many gamers, D&amp;D = FRP.&nbsp; That cuts in two directions:1) Many players don't/didn't try systems other than ones based on D&amp;D, despite the fact that D&amp;D is clearly not what they want, given the amount of houseruling they do, and2) The term &quot;D&amp;D&quot; has tended to lose much of its meaning.&nbsp; It isn't a game, as such, it's a whole collection of games sharing - what? - a vague theme or genre and a few base mechanics, I suppose.OK.&nbsp; What my experiences are telling me - especially my recent ones playing D&amp;D 4E - is that I already have a shelf (or six) full of &quot;toolboxes&quot;, &quot;smorgasboards&quot; and &quot;books of ideas&quot;.&nbsp; What I want these days is an actual game, playable out the box, with or without supplemental books, that hangs together well and achieves a coherent design goal entertainingly.&nbsp; If I actually get several of these, so much the better - especially if they meet subtly different design goals.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Balesir, post: 5483693, member: 27160"] Yeah, been there, done that ;) By the time you have 'fixed' all that (long) list, though, you are essentially playing a different game. Nothing wrong with that in itself whatsoever, but the fact that this has been the de-facto standard for D&D has led to a confused situation where, in the minds of many gamers, D&D = FRP. That cuts in two directions: 1) Many players don't/didn't try systems other than ones based on D&D, despite the fact that D&D is clearly not what they want, given the amount of houseruling they do, and 2) The term "D&D" has tended to lose much of its meaning. It isn't a game, as such, it's a whole collection of games sharing - what? - a vague theme or genre and a few base mechanics, I suppose. OK. What my experiences are telling me - especially my recent ones playing D&D 4E - is that I already have a shelf (or six) [I][B]full[/B][/I] of "toolboxes", "smorgasboards" and "books of ideas". What I want these days is an actual game, playable out the box, with or without supplemental books, that hangs together well and achieves a coherent design goal entertainingly. If I actually get several of these, so much the better - especially if they meet subtly different design goals. [/QUOTE]

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