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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Imagicka" data-source="post: 3178876" data-attributes="member: 4621">Greetings...Well, if there is a serious lack of treasure, then that is something that is probably affects the mobs as well.  After all, if it’s not a problem for your opponents.  Then you have to ask yourself...and ultimately the DM: Where are they getting the money? -- Why can’t we just kill them and take their stuff? Well, that is rather meta-gamey actually; especially OOC.  If your fellow players don’t bother to stipulate their actions, especially when covering for fellow players...the DM is perfectly within his right to punish the party for their forgetfulness.  Hopefully, they won’t do it again. But the way you described it, at least he let the other characters roll retroactive spot checks.  That’s something I might not consider in the same situation. But I’m of two minds about this.  If I have a good group of players that I can expect them to handle the housekeeping I will.  I will usually give ONE hint that they should set up marching orders (indoors and outdoors), watch-order, and daily routines that their characters perform.  Then I leave it up to them.  -- Once I have this information, I go on the assumption that they are always going to do these things, unless stated otherwise. If I don’t have a group that is mindful of such things, I teach them the folly of their ways.  Have animals steal their food in the middle of the night.  Have monsters attack them if they haven’t gotten the first hint.  But if such housekeeping tasks detract from the game, and the players just aren’t interested in dealing with such things, and aren’t having much fun dealing with the consequences of their actions, then the GM should do something about it.  But as far as I see it, how hard is it for a player to say, "I would just like it known that my character would be mindful of such things, and after every battle will start searching and looting the bodies.  -- Every morning, my character will pray to his goddess and once every week will offer up a sacrifice of some food and some flowers, preferably lilies." Well, to me this sounds like an obvious cop-out.  If my GM was being cheap like this, especially in the light of the fact that they aren’t dolling out enough treasure, then I start being cheap too, and get the other players to go along with you on it.  Because if they also agree you guys aren’t getting enough treasure for your efforts, then let the GM stew over the fact that your going out of your way to collect weapons and armour, even if they are useless for scrap.  That your going to pull out wall fixtures just for the extra coppers.  Player -- Me: "I take the enemies’ equipment and armour."GM: "Well, it’s too badly damaged."Player: "Really?  Well, I’m still collecting all the pieces of scrap then.  How much damage does the armour have on it?  Because it can always be repaired."GM "The armour is completely destroyed in the battle."Player: "Really?   Because if that’s the case either we should have take him down easier; because he would have had a lower AC (because his armour was obviously damaged before-hand, which you failed to mention.) Or your applying the hardness/HP rules for items to armour; which is fine.  But, if that’s the case, next time we’re in a fight, let us know when we’ve sufficiently damaged the enemies’ armour, so that it adjusts the AC.   I know that we collectively didn’t do more than 40 points damage to that full platemail he was wearing.  We couldn’t have completely destroyed it all by now." There are better ways for DMs to up the costs of adventuring, instead of than taking away resources from players.  Also, with these ‘orcish’ weapons, I’d still take them.  You don’t have to show them to anyone.  Just wrap them up in a blanket and only show them to the merchant your going to sell them to, even if it is the black-market.  How can someone claim I’m an orc sympathizer if I have their weapons?  Either an orc gave them to me... in which case I might be a sympathizer, or I took them from an orc; which means I’m an orc-killer.  If anyone asks, I’ll just tell them that I’m a killer of orcs.  Better yet, I’m going to start putting a string of orc fangs on a cord and put them around the hilt of my new orc weapons.  That should tell anyone smart enough to recognize that they are orcish weapons that these are orcish teeth! Well, the first thing I would be concerned about is the fact that if these guys have flaming arrows.  Where are the rest of their unfired arrows?  Second thing I would be concerned about is the fact that if you don’t have sufficient equipment to match what a typical NPC has at your level.  When your going into combat, your effective CR or EL is lower than what it should be.  You don’t have magick supplementing your abilities.  At 3rd level, I wouldn’t be too concerned about not having magical things either.  In my game, I have my starting characters at 3rd level.  None of them have magical weapons, items or armour... and I don’t allow any of them to own any metal (especially iron) mundane armour.  But of course, this also applies to all the NPCs as well.  If you meet someone wearing an iron breastplate, then they have the right and honour to wear such things.  Probably being a nobleman.  Does this stop my players from wearing heavy armour, or iron?  No.  There is nothing ‘in the rules’ that says that they can’t pick up an iron sword, or don heavy armour and walk around town.  They are told that by law only nobles are allowed to wear heavy armour, and carry iron swords.  But, if your not a noble, well... you better be able to bluff your way through any situation.  Because as soon as some nobleman hears that there is some other noble wandering around his streets unannounced.  You better be ready for a bunch of iron-knights going around town looking for YOU. What’s good for the goose, is good for the gander.  Make sure you start using Overrun yourself.  Make sure you overrun something, and then get your standard attack!  Now, if your GM is allowing an Overrun, a Move (Run) and then an Attack... how the hell does that work? That’s fine.  Tell him to explain it in detail.  Because as a player, you should know what all the rules are.  Better yet, have him write these ‘special’ rules out so you can have a hardcopy. The best thing to do is to speak with the other players, and if they feel the same way, speak with the DM.  I had HUGE problem with one of my friends, because I always knew the rules better than he did.  But I calmed down after I talked to him at length and told him, "Look, more often than not, your houseruling pretty much everything.  I don’t know if it’s the fact that you think the rules stink, or you just don’t know the rules.  But a big part of the game is getting the best out of a situation by knowing the rules, and I cannot do that because: A) When you houserule it is in favour of the NPCs/Mobs when an in-book rule would have given us the advantage.  B) Your unwilling to write down these rules of yours out for us.  -- How do I know your being fair and honest about this game?  Every time you pull one of these fly-by-night arbitrations I don’t get the sense that your being consistent." But after talking to him at length about it, he was able to reassure me that he is trying to be impartial and consistent, even when he doesn’t know a specific rule.  Yeah, but a good story shouldn’t be used as an excuse to nerf the rules.  Problem I see is that because of the whole way that D&D e3.5 is designed, it’s hard to ignore/change rules.  Take AoO’s for example.  If you remove them, it changes a lot of things.  Magic-users don’t have to worry about casting spells in front of you.  Do you bother to keep flat-footed situations in?  If a GM is going to change so much of the game that ou don’t know what’s up or what’s down anymore, then why bother?  Why doesn’t the GM just write up his own game system, and move on from there?  Or like Tenwox mentioned, use True20, or even some other game system.  To be all cinematic and stuff, I’d use 7th Sea, or even that d20 bastardization Swashbuckling Tales (though I haven’t read though SbT yet.  Maybe I’ll go home and do that now.  See how they handle cinematic actions.)Snacks for miniatures... you know... I've been doing this for my games, as well as the games I've been running for gaming cons.  Gummi Bears... Worms... Spiders.  Only problem was that I had a run of players wanting to play at my table... even some of the other DMs...</blockquote>

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