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*Pathfinder & Starfinder
A proposal for tiered skill training [very long]
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<blockquote data-quote="Crazy Jerome" data-source="post: 5842529" data-attributes="member: 54877"><p>Must spread XP--and yes, I did read the entire thing, including the commentary. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></p><p> </p><p>I think the best part is the effect on Aid Another, and the worst part is trying to keep most checks in the "Competent" range--the Aid Another benefits are too great to not push for a few higher masteries in every adventure. </p><p> </p><p>Also, this provides a way to show characters changing over time--another way to support what 4E tiers are trying to do, or how higher level spells in other versions change how things operate. Low-level adventurers do mostly competent checks, having to scrounge for time and aid with key tougher ones. Higher-level adventurers develop a few masteries.</p><p> </p><p>Plus, I think there is value in labeling someone "Expert" on multiple, modular rules levels. If that is using this system, the effect is clear. You already proposed a straight bonus for those who want to keep it to one roll. However, even for someone using ability checks or fiat, that label is still useful for guiding DM adjudication. </p><p> </p><p>A possible option for rolling a natural 20 is to immediately permit another die. This gives a small, last-ditch option for someone attempting a skill check above them, but for whatever reason lacking in time or other resources. The untrained guy having to pick the lock before the water traps drowns him springs to mind. <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/devil.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":devil:" title="Devil :devil:" data-shortname=":devil:" /> Or just make some "skill tricks" universal, with a natural 20 giving an extra one. </p><p> </p><p>For people slavering on dice to overwhelm the system, you can always go with some kind of hard cap--no more than double or triple the dice available to the lead person, perhaps. But I'd prefer some kind of "complication" system for natural 1 rolls--not a fumble system, but more of the "stakes/intent" style where you still succeed (if you do), but these other things crop up that make it less than perfect. You pick the lock, but break a lockpick. You get the Duke's permission, but he has a side request of you (in addition to whatever he normally bargains for). That makes putting extra dice counter-productive past a certain point, but puts the exact decision of where on the party. Getting 12 dice somehow to research the notes on a dark cult might normally not be worth the extra risks of those complications--but if their ritual starts at midnight, maybe it is.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Crazy Jerome, post: 5842529, member: 54877"] Must spread XP--and yes, I did read the entire thing, including the commentary. :) I think the best part is the effect on Aid Another, and the worst part is trying to keep most checks in the "Competent" range--the Aid Another benefits are too great to not push for a few higher masteries in every adventure. Also, this provides a way to show characters changing over time--another way to support what 4E tiers are trying to do, or how higher level spells in other versions change how things operate. Low-level adventurers do mostly competent checks, having to scrounge for time and aid with key tougher ones. Higher-level adventurers develop a few masteries. Plus, I think there is value in labeling someone "Expert" on multiple, modular rules levels. If that is using this system, the effect is clear. You already proposed a straight bonus for those who want to keep it to one roll. However, even for someone using ability checks or fiat, that label is still useful for guiding DM adjudication. A possible option for rolling a natural 20 is to immediately permit another die. This gives a small, last-ditch option for someone attempting a skill check above them, but for whatever reason lacking in time or other resources. The untrained guy having to pick the lock before the water traps drowns him springs to mind. :devil: Or just make some "skill tricks" universal, with a natural 20 giving an extra one. For people slavering on dice to overwhelm the system, you can always go with some kind of hard cap--no more than double or triple the dice available to the lead person, perhaps. But I'd prefer some kind of "complication" system for natural 1 rolls--not a fumble system, but more of the "stakes/intent" style where you still succeed (if you do), but these other things crop up that make it less than perfect. You pick the lock, but break a lockpick. You get the Duke's permission, but he has a side request of you (in addition to whatever he normally bargains for). That makes putting extra dice counter-productive past a certain point, but puts the exact decision of where on the party. Getting 12 dice somehow to research the notes on a dark cult might normally not be worth the extra risks of those complications--but if their ritual starts at midnight, maybe it is. [/QUOTE]
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A proposal for tiered skill training [very long]
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