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<blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 8191124" data-attributes="member: 6696971">Speaking of being boned for multiple rolls.&nbsp; I just want to make sure we're talking about the same thing?Are we talking about the multiple checks that a Fighter would have to make to climb a 75-90 degree slope and overhang in order to ascend the 200 meter face (which would be a 20 % to 60 % chance of falling in AD&amp;D WSG rules pending Mountaineering and circumstantial mods, a DC 25 Climb min in 3.x, and surely DC 20 Str/Ath min in 5e)?The face that the Wizard can just press the Spider Climb spell button and not have to make any rolls at all and render the obstacle obsolete?&nbsp; Things like that (or the myriad of other spells/rituals that a Wizard can deploy to obviate obstacles where the Fighter would have to undergo multiple tests within the action resolution mechanics that would likely lead to major complications if not outright failure)?You guys have literally depicted the Fighter's lot in AD&amp;D, 3.x, and 5e in the overwhelming bulk of noncombat challenges, whether it be parley (Charm Person), ascending a cliff face (Spider Climb), engaging in a rooftop chase (Jump/Expeditious Retreat/Longstrider et al...or just Hold Person because eff it), etc, etc (due to the granular task resolution nature of these systems and attendant DCs at minimum - but also the maths/build issues in AD&amp;D and 3.x).</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Manbearcat, post: 8191124, member: 6696971"] Speaking of being boned for multiple rolls. I just want to make sure we're talking about the same thing? Are we talking about the multiple checks that a Fighter would have to make to climb a 75-90 degree slope and overhang in order to ascend the 200 meter face (which would be a 20 % to 60 % chance of falling in AD&D WSG rules pending Mountaineering and circumstantial mods, a DC 25 Climb min in 3.x, and surely DC 20 Str/Ath min in 5e)? The face that the Wizard can just press the Spider Climb spell button and not have to make any rolls at all and render the obstacle obsolete? Things like that (or the myriad of other spells/rituals that a Wizard can deploy to obviate obstacles where the Fighter would have to undergo multiple tests within the action resolution mechanics that would likely lead to major complications if not outright failure)? You guys have literally depicted the Fighter's lot in AD&D, 3.x, and 5e in the overwhelming bulk of noncombat challenges, whether it be parley (Charm Person), ascending a cliff face (Spider Climb), engaging in a rooftop chase (Jump/Expeditious Retreat/Longstrider et al...or just Hold Person because eff it), etc, etc (due to the granular task resolution nature of these systems and attendant DCs at minimum - but also the maths/build issues in AD&D and 3.x). [/QUOTE]

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