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<blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 8191243" data-attributes="member: 6696971">Historically (AD&amp;D and 2e especially and certainly 3.x), by level 7 Wizards have so much proliferate spell slots (not just endogenous to class, but Scrolls and Wands) and can control the rest day a huge % of the time (except for in the cases of the most adversarial, Force-fest, ham-fisted content curations GMs out there) with spells like LTH etc.&nbsp; When I hear &quot;but limited resources (!)&quot; my brain immediately goes to &quot;this person has never played with a good Wizard player&quot; or &quot;this person has never GMed a mid/high level Wizard&quot; or &quot;this GM engages in rampant Force/ham-fisted content curation that is blatantly adversarial to Wizard players that the eye rolls at the table must have their own gravity&quot;But what about 5e at 7th level?A 7th level Wizard has Toll the Dead as a Cantrip.&nbsp; They have Sleep at level 1.&nbsp; They have Web at level 2.&nbsp; They have Counterspell at level 3.&nbsp; They have Polymorph at level 4. Is there any reason to not loadout with Minor Illusion, Enlarge/Reduce, Levitation (who needs Knock for the lock when you can smallify the door and have tons of other utility and who needs Spiderclimb?), Arcane Eye and other utility spells when you have all of the combat needs covered by those spells?Not to mention Rituals (like the aforementioned LTH!) and 3 Spells Levels in refresh.&nbsp; If you're a Diviner, you've got 2 x Portent and Arcane Eye refreshes a 3/2/1 level spell?&nbsp; By that level they probably have a few Scrolls handy as well.I mean, how many noncombat conflicts is that 7th level Diviner going to be dealing with that their resource pool and ability to create recharge capabilities is going to be seriously challenged?&nbsp; How many heists (where Levitation and Reduce/Enlarge and Arcane Eye are ridiculously powerful) aren't going to be heavily scouted and aren't going to be the exclusive conflict of the day (with nested and/or fallout conflicts involved)?I'm not asking this rhetorically.&nbsp; I'm asking for your actual thoughts on this.&nbsp; It seems to me that a highly skilled Wizard player will dominate the trajectory of play with a Diviner loadout like this around 7th level (I've GMed this guy but I don't have as much data with 5e as I do with the other D&amp;D editions).</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Manbearcat, post: 8191243, member: 6696971"] Historically (AD&D and 2e especially and certainly 3.x), by level 7 Wizards have so much proliferate spell slots (not just endogenous to class, but Scrolls and Wands) and can control the rest day a huge % of the time (except for in the cases of the most adversarial, Force-fest, ham-fisted content curations GMs out there) with spells like LTH etc. When I hear "but limited resources (!)" my brain immediately goes to "this person has never played with a good Wizard player" or "this person has never GMed a mid/high level Wizard" or "this GM engages in rampant Force/ham-fisted content curation that is blatantly adversarial to Wizard players that the eye rolls at the table must have their own gravity" But what about 5e at 7th level? A 7th level Wizard has Toll the Dead as a Cantrip. They have Sleep at level 1. They have Web at level 2. They have Counterspell at level 3. They have Polymorph at level 4. Is there any reason to not loadout with Minor Illusion, Enlarge/Reduce, Levitation (who needs Knock for the lock when you can smallify the door and have tons of other utility and who needs Spiderclimb?), Arcane Eye and other utility spells when you have all of the combat needs covered by those spells? Not to mention Rituals (like the aforementioned LTH!) and 3 Spells Levels in refresh. If you're a Diviner, you've got 2 x Portent and Arcane Eye refreshes a 3/2/1 level spell? By that level they probably have a few Scrolls handy as well. I mean, how many noncombat conflicts is that 7th level Diviner going to be dealing with that their resource pool and ability to create recharge capabilities is going to be seriously challenged? How many heists (where Levitation and Reduce/Enlarge and Arcane Eye are ridiculously powerful) aren't going to be heavily scouted and aren't going to be the exclusive conflict of the day (with nested and/or fallout conflicts involved)? I'm not asking this rhetorically. I'm asking for your actual thoughts on this. It seems to me that a highly skilled Wizard player will dominate the trajectory of play with a Diviner loadout like this around 7th level (I've GMed this guy but I don't have as much data with 5e as I do with the other D&D editions). [/QUOTE]

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