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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 8191551" data-attributes="member: 42582">From my point of view this is not mostly about LFQW. It is about why some fiction to do with feats of manual dexterity - eg picking a lock, juggling some skittles, doing a bit of stage magic - is gated behind a player-side check but other seemingly very similar fiction - performing the intricate gestures for casting a spell - is not gated behind such a check.Maybe the answer to the question feeds into class balance and the like. But we can't know that until we have an answer.The reason I raised 4e was that it took one answer - allowing some &quot;auto-successes&quot; for player-established feats of prowess facilitates effective gameplay - and generalised it. Just as players of casters have a rationed ability to always succeed at performing their gestures, so players of other classes also have rationed abilities to always succeed at some of their key feats of prowess. But the generalisation of this principle seemed to me very controversial (eg in seemingly endless debates about daily encounter and martial powers).Hence my surprise that some posters in this thread think the answer to my OP question is that players of casters have a rationed ability to have their PCs to succeed N times per day at feats of manual dexterity because this is good for game play.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 8191551, member: 42582"] From my point of view this is not mostly about LFQW. It is about why some fiction to do with feats of manual dexterity - eg picking a lock, juggling some skittles, doing a bit of stage magic - is gated behind a player-side check but other seemingly very similar fiction - performing the intricate gestures for casting a spell - is not gated behind such a check. Maybe the answer to the question feeds into class balance and the like. But we can't know that until we have an answer. The reason I raised 4e was that it took one answer - [I]allowing some "auto-successes" for player-established feats of prowess facilitates effective gameplay[/I] - and generalised it. Just as players of casters have a rationed ability to always succeed at performing their gestures, so players of other classes also have rationed abilities to always succeed at some of their key feats of prowess. But the generalisation of this principle seemed to me very controversial (eg in seemingly endless debates about daily encounter and martial powers). Hence my surprise that some posters in this thread think the answer to my OP question is that [I]players of casters have a rationed ability to have their PCs to succeed N times per day at feats of manual dexterity because this is good for game play[/I]. [/QUOTE]

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