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<blockquote data-quote="Persiflage" data-source="post: 5277969" data-attributes="member: 73597">Thing is, the discussion here seems to hinge on whether or not it was appropriate for the OP to declare a character KO'd on the basis that they'd been punched in the face by someone with a high Strength.&nbsp; To resolve that issue, we have a combat system; indeed, I think it's fair to say that D&amp;D is mostly a combat system - or series of conflict-resolution systems at least - with some other stuff thrown in for colour.&nbsp; To that extent, I think it's inappropriate to have a situation that is more-than-adequately covered by the rules decided on in an arbitrary manner by the DM.The NPC doing the punching may well have been the King Of Bar Fights: in which case, he should be statted appropriately and have abilities that fit his lofty position.&nbsp; Maybe he was Power Attacking with his mighty strength and did enough damage to lay out the elf.&nbsp; Maybe he has some custom PrC that lets him double his damage against intoxicated opponents (or just when making unarmed strikes).&nbsp; Maybe he has a variant of Stunning Fist that allows him to render an opponent unconscious if he does a certain amount of damage to them when they're flat-footed...&nbsp; whatever.&nbsp; However, it seems from the tone of the OP's post that none of these things, or any variant on them, was applied or discussed: the DM just said &quot;You got punched by someone really strong whilst you were drunk so now you're unconscious&quot; without reference to any damage the character took.The point is that it is unfair to say &quot;You get hit in the face and fall unconscious&quot; without invoking the rules when pretty much the entire point of the game is to resolve when, where and how people get beaten to a pulp (hacked to bits/reduced to ashes/vapourised/turned into a doorknob).&nbsp; My feeling is that if the DM can play Magical Princess Tea Party with something so fundamental as a straightforward combat, the players are flat-out wasting their time designing characters in the first place.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Persiflage, post: 5277969, member: 73597"] Thing is, the discussion here seems to hinge on whether or not it was appropriate for the OP to declare a character KO'd on the basis that they'd been punched in the face by someone with a high Strength. To resolve that issue, we have a combat system; indeed, I think it's fair to say that D&D is [I]mostly[/I] a combat system - or series of conflict-resolution systems at least - with some other stuff thrown in for colour. To that extent, I think it's inappropriate to have a situation that is more-than-adequately covered by the rules decided on in an arbitrary manner by the DM. The NPC doing the punching may well have been the King Of Bar Fights: in which case, he should be statted appropriately and have abilities that fit his lofty position. Maybe he was Power Attacking with his mighty strength and did enough damage to lay out the elf. Maybe he has some custom PrC that lets him double his damage against intoxicated opponents (or just when making unarmed strikes). Maybe he has a variant of Stunning Fist that allows him to render an opponent unconscious if he does a certain amount of damage to them when they're flat-footed... whatever. However, it seems from the tone of the OP's post that none of these things, or any variant on them, was applied or discussed: the DM just said "You got punched by someone really strong whilst you were drunk so now you're unconscious" without reference to any damage the character took. The point is that it is [I]unfair[/I] to say "You get hit in the face and fall unconscious" without invoking the rules when pretty much the [I]entire point of the game[/I] is to resolve when, where and how people get beaten to a pulp (hacked to bits/reduced to ashes/vapourised/turned into a doorknob). My feeling is that if the DM can play Magical Princess Tea Party with something so fundamental as a straightforward combat, the players are flat-out wasting their time designing characters in the first place. [/QUOTE]

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