A Question About Mounts

[Hussar]

Ok, got a bit of a problem. According to my understanding, when a medium creature is riding a large creature, that medium creature is assumed to be somewhere the four squares of the large creature. The DMG 1 states that if it becomes necessary to know the exact location of the rider, the rider's player picks a square.

Fine, I can understand that.

But, how does that interact with other rules like flanking? Or area of effect spells? Unless the area of effect covers the entire mount, can't the rider just state that he's outside the area? How do you flank someone on a horse? If the rider picks a square, unless the opponents have reach weapons, it's virtually impossible to flank him.

What am I doing wrong? This seems a bit wonky to me.

 

[Dausuul]

Looking at the Compendium, I see the following:

Space: The rider and mount both occupy the mount’s space. However, the origin squares of the rider’s powers and other effects do not change to the mount’s size. Whenever the rider uses an effect that has an origin square (such as a melee, a ranged, an area, or a close power), the rider first picks where that square is located in the mount’s space, and the effect uses that origin square. ...

Targeting the Mount and Rider: ... area and burst attacks can affect both mount and rider, since the two are in the same space.

I read this to mean the rider occupies all four squares--she is effectively Large-sized while mounted, with a special exemption for her own abilities. So if you flank the mount, you flank the rider; if you make a burst attack that hits the mount, it hits the rider; and so forth. That's how my group has always played it.

 

[moxcamel]

Looking at the Compendium, I see the following:



I read this to mean the rider occupies all four squares--she is effectively Large-sized while mounted, with a special exemption for her own abilities. So if you flank the mount, you flank the rider; if you make a burst attack that hits the mount, it hits the rider; and so forth. That's how my group has always played it.

Yep, exactly my understanding too. When you're doing something, pick a square. When someone's doing something to you, you are your horse.

 

[On Puget Sound]

Thanks for this thread! In last night's game we had this very issue, when a blade barrier was placed across part of a mounted enemy. I had to make something up at the time; I turned out to be half right. So now I know.

 

[Hussar]

Cool, maybe this got errata'd I'll have to check. Here's the text from the DMG. How is it different from the compendium?

Space: You and your mount occupy the mount's space. If it is ever important to determine the precise location within the mount's space that you occupy, you choose.

Targetting: Targeted attacks can target you or the mount, as the attacker chooses. A close attack or an area attack affects both you and your mount if the area includes either of you.

Reading that again, I think I see where I went wrong. The second bit about targeting supersedes the first bit about space.

Thanks.

 

[moxcamel]

Cool, maybe this got errata'd I'll have to check. Here's the text from the DMG. How is it different from the compendium?
Thanks.

The Compendium says pretty much the same thing. There are a couple pages on mounted combat actually, probably worth reading if one is going to run any significant mounted combat. But overall, it's not too hard if you just remember that the mount and rider are separate targets, area effects will affect both mount and rider, the rider gets to pick the originating square for determining powers and effects origins, and determining combat maneuvers (such as flanking) operate off of the mount. That is, you flank the mount, not the rider. That's pretty much it in a nutshell.