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Message: <blockquote data-quote="CapnZapp" data-source="post: 8132659" data-attributes="member: 12731">Nobody is saying that...?My point is that there is no "grind". ANY combat can take a player character from max to zero hit points, even a "Low" challenge.My point is that PF2 is surprisingly incompatible with the concept of "grind". (You can achieve a similar effect with poison and disease, but soon the Cleric can trivialize disease, and at level 7, warrior classes get Juggernaut, a class feature that effectively inoculates those characters against that approach to grinding).Pathfinder 2 is clearly set up for "showcase fights" - the playing style where adventure consists of a string of challenging combats, and where most of the non-challenging aspects are simply skipped or ignored.To support a "hp grind" a game needs its monster damage output to be much more consistent (less random) than PF2.If you assume the party has a Cleric and that the spell slots you want to remove belong to that Cleric (since the continuous combat increases the likelihood of that Cleric casting Heals), yes.Otherwise, not really. I'm guessing you envision the players going "oh no, another wave, guess we need to buff up to handle it, or ask the wizard to thin the mob", but in my experience, the only buff the martials really need to perpetually kill off mobs is hit points. Sure a bonus or penalty shifts the fight, but these effects are subtle (they change the average more than any given round's outcome) and so it's real easy to not consider them essential.We haven't found that a spellcaster can contribute much of anything (at single-digit levels) that is so essential you feel compelled to cast it, except for Heal, and that is specifically because of the +8 bonus to the 2-action Heal. As for debuffs, few things beat the Intimidation skill actions and they are limitless and ungrindable (much like Medicine between fights).I'm not saying this to enter a discussion "it's impossible to grind down the heroes". I'm saying this because PF2 is not set up for it. Even an experienced GM will find it surprisingly hard to tweak PF2 to support a grinding playstyle.I'm just illustrating this point with examples. Not saying you can't do it, and not trying to shoot down ideas. You absolutely can do it, but why not simply use another game where it is that much easier to pull it off?This is true. It is also easy to accomplish since it is what PF2 was already designed to do.</blockquote>

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