Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
A question for you firearms aficionados...
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Tratyn Runewind" data-source="post: 355624" data-attributes="member: 685"><p>Hello!</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>1) Most criminals aren't exactly Professor Moriarty, and </p><p>2) Sabot small-arms ammo is rare and exotic enough that purchases of it can be traced fairly easily compared to purchases of more common sorts of ammunition.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Are they really? The only commercially-available sabot ammo I ever heard of was Remington's "Accelerator" rounds, and as far as I remember, they were only available in .30-'06 and maybe .308 Win (AKA 7.62 NATO). I've seen plastic sabots offered for sale to handloaders, but only in .30-caliber versions that hold .22-caliber bullets, just like the "Accelerators". And sabot rounds are among the many specialty loads available for 12-gauge shotguns, though these are often restricted in their sales to law-enforcement users only.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I've seen a little data that seems to indicate that rifling will leave some marks on small-arms sabots. But how useful those marks would be is open to question, since a plastic sabot would seem to be much more susceptible to all sorts of other random scratches, melting, and other things that might not mark up the metal jacket of a bullet.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yes, similar (not identical) energy, higher velocity, lower projectile mass. Typical numbers are around 2900 fps at the muzzle for a standard .30-'06 with a 150-180 grain slug, and about 4100 fps for an "Accelerator" with a slug about 1/3 the mass (55 grains). Energy at the muzzle is actually a fair bit lower because of the way air resistance scales with velocity (projectile diameter is not lower at this point, because the sabot is still on all through the barrel). Incidentally, this NOT "about the same" as a .223, which typically pushes a 55-grain slug out at about 3200 to 3300 fps. It's about 25% faster, which is to be expected given the larger powder charge behind the bullet. The real benefit of the bullet, for most users, is the accuracy - the high speed makes for a nice flat trajectory.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Or if you're talking about pistols, you could just get a Hecker and Koch HK4, which came with a kit with several different barrels and magazines that actually let you switch the weapon's caliber - .22 LR, .25 ACP, .32 ACP, and .380 ACP, if I remember correctly... <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p>As Zenon pointed out, if forensics are really the concern, a good old 12-gauge shotgun would seem to be a simpler, cheaper, and less noticable solution than exotic ammo. </p><p></p><p>Hope this helps!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tratyn Runewind, post: 355624, member: 685"] Hello! 1) Most criminals aren't exactly Professor Moriarty, and 2) Sabot small-arms ammo is rare and exotic enough that purchases of it can be traced fairly easily compared to purchases of more common sorts of ammunition. Are they really? The only commercially-available sabot ammo I ever heard of was Remington's "Accelerator" rounds, and as far as I remember, they were only available in .30-'06 and maybe .308 Win (AKA 7.62 NATO). I've seen plastic sabots offered for sale to handloaders, but only in .30-caliber versions that hold .22-caliber bullets, just like the "Accelerators". And sabot rounds are among the many specialty loads available for 12-gauge shotguns, though these are often restricted in their sales to law-enforcement users only. I've seen a little data that seems to indicate that rifling will leave some marks on small-arms sabots. But how useful those marks would be is open to question, since a plastic sabot would seem to be much more susceptible to all sorts of other random scratches, melting, and other things that might not mark up the metal jacket of a bullet. Yes, similar (not identical) energy, higher velocity, lower projectile mass. Typical numbers are around 2900 fps at the muzzle for a standard .30-'06 with a 150-180 grain slug, and about 4100 fps for an "Accelerator" with a slug about 1/3 the mass (55 grains). Energy at the muzzle is actually a fair bit lower because of the way air resistance scales with velocity (projectile diameter is not lower at this point, because the sabot is still on all through the barrel). Incidentally, this NOT "about the same" as a .223, which typically pushes a 55-grain slug out at about 3200 to 3300 fps. It's about 25% faster, which is to be expected given the larger powder charge behind the bullet. The real benefit of the bullet, for most users, is the accuracy - the high speed makes for a nice flat trajectory. Or if you're talking about pistols, you could just get a Hecker and Koch HK4, which came with a kit with several different barrels and magazines that actually let you switch the weapon's caliber - .22 LR, .25 ACP, .32 ACP, and .380 ACP, if I remember correctly... :) As Zenon pointed out, if forensics are really the concern, a good old 12-gauge shotgun would seem to be a simpler, cheaper, and less noticable solution than exotic ammo. Hope this helps! [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
A question for you firearms aficionados...
Top