Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ovinomancer" data-source="post: 8130838" data-attributes="member: 16814">A can be illusionism, but also might not, depending on outcome.  The issue with A is that any decisions the PCs made during the interaction end in the same result -- the NPC lied and the players believed them.  B is not illusionism, or even any reduction in agency.  The players had the option to try to detect falsehood and did not.  However, if the GM downplayed any tells and played up the veracity of the NPC, then it's teetering on the edge of Force anyway.C is not illusionism, nor a reduction in agency, provided the failed check was fairly handled.  Failure has consequences, and that's a fine one.  Agency doesn't involved success, it involves choice.  Here the players made the choice, but failed the execution.  That's perfectly fine, agency-wise.  The way this could slid towards Force is if the GM doesn't provide a fair check, either through overly high DC setting (for games that feature such) or overriding outcomes (not honoring the roll) or by calling for multiple checks and stopping on a failure.</blockquote>