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<blockquote data-quote="Lanefan" data-source="post: 8133498" data-attributes="member: 29398">Other than the last point, when put in those terms it also all sounds rather...prepackaged, for lack of a better term; or maybe...constrained.&nbsp; Or codified, though that's a label I tend to want to lay more at the feet of 3e D&amp;D and other a-rule-for-everything systems.It also forces players to interact with the mechanics much more than they otherwise might; and while some players might like this, others don't, as almost any interaction with mechanics usually comes at cost of immersion.And, perhaps worse, it wants to very strongly suggest a particular style of play (goodly, heroic, non-gritty) and tends to fight against other styles a bit - which if I'm designing a system is the last thing I want, in that I'd ideally want my system to be flexible enough to handle anything with roughly-equal aplomb.My readings and conversions of 4e material* pointed strongly to the first two of these but didn't really highlight the latter two at all.&nbsp; The third one in particular must have been a later development during 4e's lifespan, as I don't recall seeing any more said about this in the 4e books* than in the books for any other D&amp;D edition.* - first-run DMG, PH and MM only, plus some adventures.&nbsp; I've neither bought nor read any later 4e core books, in part out of a sense of they ought to be giving me the game-as-designed in the first run of books and if they don't that's on them, not me.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Lanefan, post: 8133498, member: 29398"] Other than the last point, when put in those terms it also all sounds rather...prepackaged, for lack of a better term; or maybe...constrained. Or codified, though that's a label I tend to want to lay more at the feet of 3e D&D and other a-rule-for-everything systems. It also forces players to interact with the mechanics much more than they otherwise might; and while some players might like this, others don't, as almost any interaction with mechanics usually comes at cost of immersion. And, perhaps worse, it wants to very strongly suggest a particular style of play (goodly, heroic, non-gritty) and tends to fight against other styles a bit - which if I'm designing a system is the last thing I want, in that I'd ideally want my system to be flexible enough to handle anything with roughly-equal aplomb. My readings and conversions of 4e material* pointed strongly to the first two of these but didn't really highlight the latter two at all. The third one in particular must have been a later development during 4e's lifespan, as I don't recall seeing any more said about this in the 4e books* than in the books for any other D&D edition. * - first-run DMG, PH and MM only, plus some adventures. I've neither bought nor read any later 4e core books, in part out of a sense of they ought to be giving me the game-as-designed in the first run of books and if they don't that's on them, not me. [/QUOTE]

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