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A Question Of Agency?
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<blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 8134358" data-attributes="member: 6696971"><p>Since [USER=42582]@pemerton[/USER] hasn't had a chance to answer, I'll go ahead and fill in the blanks for him (because I'm clearly a presumptuous douche). Numbered for reference but I'm including everything in the last two paragraphs under header (3):</p><p></p><p>1) He's not conflating them. He's integrating them, which is a fundamental part of holistic systems like Burning Wheel. You can't silo play procedures from action resolution mechanics from GM instruction from the system's premise/ethos in the sort of game he's referring to. If you do so, you're likely going to introduce downstream problems that you now have to solve.</p><p></p><p>2) Perfect (intending this for the OP). This is because in a low prep game (like the OP is running) you need a level of malleable/unfixed backstory and setting (like in a game such as Burning Wheel or the games I've mentioned above). More on this in below.</p><p></p><p>3) Instead of explaining the rules of Burning Wheel/Torchbearer, I'm going to attempt to roughly map them to 5e and then change 5e's premise (that won't remotely be an analogue - see the holistic commentary above - but I think it will have better explanatory power because you are familiar with 5e).</p><p></p><p>On <em>Circles</em>:</p><p></p><p>First, imagine that the premise of 5e was (exclusively) to test each PC's core ethics and nature (Beliefs and Instincts in BW but Ideals/Bonds/Flaws in 5e) and, through this feedback loop, see how they evolve in the course of play. This is great for the OP's example because Burning Wheel is entirely unscripted play. "Story" emerges "now" (meaning at the table through the accumulation of moments of play) rather than "before" (prescripted adventures).</p><p></p><p>No imagine that there was a Skill in 5e called <em>Relationships. </em>Now imagine that a player can declare an action like the following:</p><p></p><p><em>"I look at the barkeep pouring drinks to the soldiers. I wonder if I served with any of these men during my time in the Legions. Some of them went into Guide-work and know the territory well. We could use a Guide right about now."</em></p><p></p><p>The GM says "<em>sounds good...roll Relationships DC 15 and lets find out.</em>"</p><p></p><p>If the Player succeeds, they get to name them, briefly describe them, and add the to their <em>Allies </em>section of their character sheet (which is mechanically relevant...this isn't just fluff/color). The GM is now obliged to help the PCs through that NPC in a way that honors the mechanics and the fiction.</p><p></p><p>If the Player fails, the GM should introduce either (a) a nemesis from the PC's time in the Legions and a complication that will challenge that player's conception of their PC or (b) a dear friend from the Legions who has fallen on hard times and will complicate that player's conception of their PC or (c) a new antagonist entirely. If (a) or (c) then the player adds the new NPC to their Enemies section. </p><p></p><p>Regardless, the fallout of the failed action resolution won't be something that the player can ignore. It will introduce new content that must be dealt with.</p><p></p><p>This is how content is generated in Burning Wheel, Torchbearer, and games like this (including the games I've listed above...they have analogues to this). Players build PCs with thematically potent cues for the GM that say "PUSH THIS CANDY RED BUTTON." The players declare actions and the GM's job is to constantly push the candy red buttons and the the resolution mechanics tell us what happens (pass and fail). This feedback loop persists, the story emerges "now" and the PCs' ethic and motivations invariably change as a result of the intersection of these things. </p><p></p><p>Hopefully it should be clear that backstory and setting has to have a low enough resolution at the beginning/level of malleability/lack of fixedness in order for this to work. Scripted metaplot, PC-irrelevant side quests, and high resolution setting is anathema to this style of play. Consequently, there is no "adventure module", no "GM-devised plot hooks/quests." All thematic content is "uploaded into the engine" by the players and the system's procedures, the players (through their PCs), and the GM each play their discrete part to find out who/what/why/when.</p><p></p><p>Presumably, this paradigm is somewhat/mostly similar to what the OP does.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Manbearcat, post: 8134358, member: 6696971"] Since [USER=42582]@pemerton[/USER] hasn't had a chance to answer, I'll go ahead and fill in the blanks for him (because I'm clearly a presumptuous douche). Numbered for reference but I'm including everything in the last two paragraphs under header (3): 1) He's not conflating them. He's integrating them, which is a fundamental part of holistic systems like Burning Wheel. You can't silo play procedures from action resolution mechanics from GM instruction from the system's premise/ethos in the sort of game he's referring to. If you do so, you're likely going to introduce downstream problems that you now have to solve. 2) Perfect (intending this for the OP). This is because in a low prep game (like the OP is running) you need a level of malleable/unfixed backstory and setting (like in a game such as Burning Wheel or the games I've mentioned above). More on this in below. 3) Instead of explaining the rules of Burning Wheel/Torchbearer, I'm going to attempt to roughly map them to 5e and then change 5e's premise (that won't remotely be an analogue - see the holistic commentary above - but I think it will have better explanatory power because you are familiar with 5e). On [I]Circles[/I]: First, imagine that the premise of 5e was (exclusively) to test each PC's core ethics and nature (Beliefs and Instincts in BW but Ideals/Bonds/Flaws in 5e) and, through this feedback loop, see how they evolve in the course of play. This is great for the OP's example because Burning Wheel is entirely unscripted play. "Story" emerges "now" (meaning at the table through the accumulation of moments of play) rather than "before" (prescripted adventures). No imagine that there was a Skill in 5e called [I]Relationships. [/I]Now imagine that a player can declare an action like the following: [I]"I look at the barkeep pouring drinks to the soldiers. I wonder if I served with any of these men during my time in the Legions. Some of them went into Guide-work and know the territory well. We could use a Guide right about now."[/I] The GM says "[I]sounds good...roll Relationships DC 15 and lets find out.[/I]" If the Player succeeds, they get to name them, briefly describe them, and add the to their [I]Allies [/I]section of their character sheet (which is mechanically relevant...this isn't just fluff/color). The GM is now obliged to help the PCs through that NPC in a way that honors the mechanics and the fiction. If the Player fails, the GM should introduce either (a) a nemesis from the PC's time in the Legions and a complication that will challenge that player's conception of their PC or (b) a dear friend from the Legions who has fallen on hard times and will complicate that player's conception of their PC or (c) a new antagonist entirely. If (a) or (c) then the player adds the new NPC to their Enemies section. Regardless, the fallout of the failed action resolution won't be something that the player can ignore. It will introduce new content that must be dealt with. This is how content is generated in Burning Wheel, Torchbearer, and games like this (including the games I've listed above...they have analogues to this). Players build PCs with thematically potent cues for the GM that say "PUSH THIS CANDY RED BUTTON." The players declare actions and the GM's job is to constantly push the candy red buttons and the the resolution mechanics tell us what happens (pass and fail). This feedback loop persists, the story emerges "now" and the PCs' ethic and motivations invariably change as a result of the intersection of these things. Hopefully it should be clear that backstory and setting has to have a low enough resolution at the beginning/level of malleability/lack of fixedness in order for this to work. Scripted metaplot, PC-irrelevant side quests, and high resolution setting is anathema to this style of play. Consequently, there is no "adventure module", no "GM-devised plot hooks/quests." All thematic content is "uploaded into the engine" by the players and the system's procedures, the players (through their PCs), and the GM each play their discrete part to find out who/what/why/when. Presumably, this paradigm is somewhat/mostly similar to what the OP does. [/QUOTE]
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