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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Lanefan" data-source="post: 8134998" data-attributes="member: 29398">If there was in-fiction evidence the PCs could use (e.g. quickly examining the wall they're about to climb) then I'd have no problem with telling them the DC at least in somewhat specific terms, but non-numeric as the PCs wouldn't be thinking in terms of numbers and I generally try my best to narrate things as seen/known by the PCs.If there's no in-fiction evidence to go by (e.g. they're trying to sneak across ground they've had no way of pre-scouting and thus they've no idea what the ground is like or what might be met there) then they ain't gettin' no DC nohow. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />And in situations where even the premise of what they're trying is open to question, i.e they might be trying something they don't realize is impossible, not only do they not get a DC but I do the rolling behind the screen for them.  The most common of these is trying to disbelieve an illusion.  If they end up still believing it I don't want them knowing whether it's due to a bad roll or to there being no illusion present at all.I think [USER=7016699]@prabe[/USER] has hinted downthread at a corollary question here: while success should clearly be honoured in the moment, for how long does that success remain valid?Using my example of the Baroness from upthread a bit: the PCs talk to her in order to determine if she knows anything about some missing jewels, and on a few successes conclude that she legitimately and truthfully does not.  The PCs take this success and turn their investigations elsewhere.However, the PCs in asking her about said jewels have, as a probably-unintentional side effect, just informed her that the jewels are in fact (according to them, anyway) missing.  In your view does it invalidate the PCs' successes in that conversation if the Baroness then acts on this new-to-her information behind the scenes in a manner that may or may not affect the PCs down the road, depending how things go?To me, if plan A has stalled out it's on the players/PCs to come up with a plan B and try that; and if no plan B suggests itself then abandoning whatever it was they were trying is also always an option.I'm reminded of a PC in one of my games who, when first brought in to the party in a recently-abandoned Dwarven city, was a rescued prisoner and badly hurt.  They didn't have the resources to patch him (and all the other rescuees) up, and he was in no fit shape for adventuring, so they plopped him in front of an old vault door with the other rescuees while they went out to rescue some more.This PC was a thief.  A greedy one.  And, as I soon found out, a stubborn one.And they'd put him in front of the vault door of a Dwarven bank.So instead of sitting there recovering, he tried moving heaven and earth to get into that damn vault!  Neither the PC nor the player knew (though both kinda suspected) his chance of successfully stealing anything was less than zero; but it was: not only was the PC the wrong race (the door would only open to a Dwarf; the PC was Human) but if he had managed to open it he'd have been dead - or worse - the moment he tried to enter as he didn't know any of the passwords to disarm the various lethal glyphs and curses.This is a classic case where 'just give it up!' comes into play...but some players (and some PCs) just can't wrap around this concept. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />I agree with this statement as long as it's applied when 'success' is rolled and not when 'failure' is rolled. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Which is fine for someone who's reading a book; but for someone trying to play a character in a game setting, having things happen non-sequentially kinda butchers any idea of one thing or action or decision leading to the next.</blockquote>

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