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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Guest&nbsp; 85555" data-source="post: 8137054">This seems like a broader topic than the skill rolls. I think there has long been a gray area here, and that can often vary a lot from group to group. I wasn't a fan of 4E so I can't really comment on what the norm was in that edition. I do think though that they mention this requires GM approval at least is a nod to the idea that the GM is governing world details and this may be an area in the game, especially if it has to do with something like player family background, where there can be some suggestions offered by the player and if they are acceptable they can be taken up. Again, I don't really know enough about 4E to know what they were driving at here exactly (it is a little unclear to me if they are using quest to mean going on an adventure, or if it is something that is meant to happen in the background). Even in a heavy exploration traditional game, there is going to be some gray when players start asking questions and giving answers about the world (i.e. are there any magic shops over yonder hill?-------which some might argue leads to a magic shop that didn't exist now existing over yonder hill). At the same time, playing D&D up through 3E, I think the default assumption in most groups is players inventing anything in the setting is either an exception or something they should be doing through their character. Also I don't think a player setting goals for themselves is an issue, even in a very traditional RPG. I mean, I can set goals for myself in real life too. The real issue is how much that goal setting is being allowed to shape the world (and how much of a sense of a concrete, objective world outside the character the GM is trying to create). In traditional RPGs I think the things you mention above, tend to be handled more as a session zero thing if they do come up. That said, I am not averse to these kinds of techniques (my main issue is with the rhetoric around them in these threads-----because so many of these terms become wedges for persuading people that play style A or B is better). I just ran a campaign not long ago where I allowed the players to help me create the town and surrounding county. In this case, because the PC was the county magistrate (he had just been assigned there), it actually made some amount of in game sense. But they were also inventing things that would have had nothing to do with how he was administrating the region (for instance inventing a cult in the area that stole babies and sacrificed them to a bird demon). My natural style is more  traditional, but I have definitely had fun with play like this. There is a game called Hillfolk which allowed for players to create plot elements and even fabricate peoples and places during scenes, which I really loved (for some reason the way it operated in hill folk felt very immersive to me).</blockquote>

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