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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 8137106" data-attributes="member: 42582">In my Burning Wheel game I tell the GM "I'm looking out for Rufus as we ride through the outskirts of Auxol." Then I make a Circles check. This is pretending to be a real person in a real world. The dice throw makes it independent of me.In the same game I tell the GM "Aramina has studied the lore of the Great Masters. She thinks that Evard's tower is somewhere arond here." Then I make a Great Masters-wise check. This is also pretending to be a real person in a real world. The dice throw makes it independent of me.Upthread you said that who gets to control the randomiser is irrelevant. The only difference between what happened in my game, and a system in which there are two checks - first the GM's secret is-Rufus-here roll or is-Evard's-tower-here roll; and then the player's does-my-PC-know-or-see-this roll - is that the two are bundled into one.There is a more obvious difference between what happens in BW play and a system where the GM can, instead of making an is-Rufus-here roll or is-Evard's-tower-here-roll, just decide unilaterally that the looked-for thing is not here. But that has nothing to do with whether the fiction exists "outside of" or "independently of" the player. It is entirely about who gets to establish the content of the shared fiction. (And as I posted not far upthread, this transition in expectations, from distributed authority over the fiction managed via checks to unilateral GM control, can be traced through the early 80s revisions of Classic Traveller. And again through the changes from 1st ed to 2nd ed AD&D.)To me it seems pretty in-character to remember something. As I posted upthread, I have experienced amnesia, for about a week-and-a-half. Having to rely on someone else's second-person narration to learn what it is that you know is not typical. Nor is it terribly immersive.</blockquote>

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