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<blockquote data-quote="Thomas Shey" data-source="post: 8137166" data-attributes="member: 7026617">Well, its partly a side topic, and turns on whether the baseline on the &quot;succeed&quot; side is &quot;success&quot; or &quot;flawed success&quot;.&nbsp; For better or worse, some people don't respond well to the latter.This has been brought up because at least most of the PbtA games used, essentially, &quot;success with complications&quot; as their default success; you can get more unmixed success with a good enough roll, but the system kind of doesn't want you to most of the time, because the &quot;complications&quot; drive ongoing play.&nbsp; And I can quite see how people really focused on player agency can (not necessarily will) see this as having an attempt to limit their agency baked right into the rules.To what extent this is true varies apparently on the particular incarnation of the *World game and of course there's the big unresolveable debate about how many people react positively or negatively to that, but that's why its a subportion of the thread.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Thomas Shey, post: 8137166, member: 7026617"] Well, its partly a side topic, and turns on whether the baseline on the "succeed" side is "success" or "flawed success". For better or worse, some people don't respond well to the latter. This has been brought up because at least most of the PbtA games used, essentially, "success with complications" as their default success; you can get more unmixed success with a good enough roll, but the system kind of doesn't want you to most of the time, because the "complications" drive ongoing play. And I can quite see how people really focused on player agency can (not necessarily will) see this as having an attempt to limit their agency baked right into the rules. To what extent this is true varies apparently on the particular incarnation of the *World game and of course there's the big unresolveable debate about how many people react positively or negatively to that, but that's why its a subportion of the thread. [/QUOTE]

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