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Message: <blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 8137212" data-attributes="member: 82106">I think 'agency' where you have no guarantees and are always ASKING for something is at best a lesser sort of agency. In a game where the rules start with "rule 0, the GM can fiat anything." and then follows with a process where the GM is at least assumed, 'normally' as you put it, to narrate all facts about the world, that agency can be no more than 'bodily' in any real respect. Yes, of course, the GM can even undermine the player's 'bodily agency' by making the choice of which door you open or which way you walk be utterly meaningless and lead to the same conclusion (and of course lesser degrees and sort of this). The fact that this sort of thing is almost always frowned upon and that the OP actually asked about it specifically in view of wanting to avoid it, says a lot. So I think all we have there is 'common ground' where we all have set an acceptable baseline (and I admit also that most of us have probably bent on this at times for whatever social reasons, or desire to experience certain games or whatever). So, yeah, there are 'degenerate states of little or no agency', but is there a point to even cataloging them, except as a gallery of shame? Not really.</blockquote>