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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Lanefan" data-source="post: 8138053" data-attributes="member: 29398">Agreed.  It's something of an extension of this principle that has led us to 40 years of 1e modifications and given us the game we play today. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />  Players have had input into and-or suggested rules, classes, deities, spells, and so forth; sometimes that input has been adopted wholesale either then or later*, other times it's been rejected flat, and more often it's been adopted in some form or other after considerable discussion and-or modification.  Said discussions almost never happen during play sessions, though: they're what pubs were invented for. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Note however that the DM always has absolute right of veto over any of this and that this is noted in the books.  Most half-decent DMs won't use that veto unless the player is trying to game the system somehow (e.g. creating an overpowered spell or item or class), but it's there nonetheless and can't be ignored.* - in my current campaign I've twice had players make excellent suggestions (one a creature, one a spell) that I heard and quietly filed away for later use.  In both cases when the thing in question appeared (and by sheer luck in both cases was first met by a PC of the suggesting player) the player had long since forgotten making the suggestion!I wonder if the differences we're seeing now (and some of the arguments even in this thread) are based on a long-term divergence in the degree of encouragement of said input and of expectations as to its acceptance and-or adoption into the game.  3e-5e D&D, for example, seems in general to have very much moved away from player input on most such things (and from the idea of DM-as-kitbasher as well) in comparison to the 0e-1e ethos; while other games have moved sharply toward player input to the point of making it the underlying framework of play.</blockquote>

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