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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Aldarc" data-source="post: 8139340" data-attributes="member: 5142">Likewise. This, IMHO, is a huge part of the underlying frustration for some of us. What's also somewhat silly, IMO, is that a lot of this discussion is incredibly white room and detached from actual experience. To what extent would people know or care about their criticisms of non-traditional games in actual play? A lot of this involves no actual firsthand knowledge or experience with non-traditional play. So for people who have experience with non-traditional games, a number of posters sound kinda ridiculous (much like Satanic Panic Parents talking about D&D) when talking about agency and the like in non-traditional/non-mainstream games. Some people do have experience with non-traditional games, and they may not like it, but I at least respect their actual game experience and knowledge. I think that it says a lot about the person when they assume that players would try to break or win the game if they had the sort of agency that exists in these non-traditional games. It either reflects a negative view of players or how they themselves would approach the game. But if that were the case, then why are these games not being broken or won by said player agency? I suspect from my own experience that the amount of "cheating" when it comes to non-traditional games is probably STATISTICALLY LESS than in traditional games. But because it's a problem in traditional games, people assume that it must be a problem in non-traditional ones or take the same form as in traditional games.</blockquote>

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