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<blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 8149538" data-attributes="member: 6696971">Just briefly scanning the thread and don't have time to comment deeply or anything but this recent line of conversation has me doing a triple-take.&nbsp; &quot;All roads lead to Rome&quot; is literally the quintessential marker for a railroad.&nbsp; If this statement and subsequent reality about a number of games across a population of tables has somehow now become controversial...we may as well just quit talking about TTRPGs altogether!&nbsp; However, in light of this apparent controversy, I think the deep divide on the issues we've discussed in this thread is starting to crystalize (regarding Force and Agency et al).&nbsp; I guess the observations/questions I would make/have at this point are the following:1)&nbsp; Since Force is merely a microcosm of a Railroad (an individual transition of gamestate from a &gt; b where the GM has compelled the trajectory to b, subverting the possibility of divergence via player input), I guess I now understand the divide on the concept there too.&nbsp; So my question would be something like this arrangement:If the &quot;&gt;&quot; in the formulation of &quot;gamestate a &gt; b&quot; has sufficient &quot;gamestate-irrelevant-variables&quot; (conversations had, battle cries, color of cloak worn, a brooding elf vs a merry elf, &quot;Samantha just popped the question to Amy!&quot;) such that it superficially looks different from another group's &quot;&gt;&quot;, yet, because of the &quot;gamestate-relevant variables&quot; all of these tables end up at gamestate b from gamestate a (which...the only way this could be possible is if the overwhelming volitional force on play is the will of the GM)...then is that not Force?&nbsp; 2)&nbsp; I guess the only follow-up questions would be:a)&nbsp; &quot;Do people believe the concepts of a Force/Railroad are phenomenon that occurs in TTRPGs?&quot;b)&nbsp; &quot;If yes, what in the world is the litmus test (every transition from gamestate a &gt; b has to be a carbon copy for Force and every moment from gamestate a to z has to be a complete carbon copy for a Railroad)?&quot;</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Manbearcat, post: 8149538, member: 6696971"] Just briefly scanning the thread and don't have time to comment deeply or anything but this recent line of conversation has me doing a triple-take. "All roads lead to Rome" is literally the quintessential marker for a railroad. If this statement and subsequent reality about a number of games across a population of tables has somehow now become controversial...we may as well just quit talking about TTRPGs altogether! However, in light of this apparent controversy, I think the deep divide on the issues we've discussed in this thread is starting to crystalize (regarding Force and Agency et al). I guess the observations/questions I would make/have at this point are the following: 1) Since Force is merely a microcosm of a Railroad (an individual transition of gamestate from a > b where the GM has compelled the trajectory to b, subverting the possibility of divergence via player input), I guess I now understand the divide on the concept there too. So my question would be something like this arrangement: If the ">" in the formulation of "gamestate a > b" has sufficient "gamestate-irrelevant-variables" (conversations had, battle cries, color of cloak worn, a brooding elf vs a merry elf, "Samantha just popped the question to Amy!") such that it superficially looks different from another group's ">", yet, because of the "gamestate-relevant variables" all of these tables end up at gamestate b from gamestate a (which...the only way this could be possible is if the overwhelming volitional force on play is the will of the GM)...then is that not Force? 2) I guess the only follow-up questions would be: a) "Do people believe the concepts of a Force/Railroad are phenomenon that occurs in TTRPGs?" b) "If yes, what in the world is the litmus test (every transition from gamestate a > b has to be a carbon copy for Force and every moment from gamestate a to z has to be a complete carbon copy for a Railroad)?" [/QUOTE]

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