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Message: <blockquote data-quote="FrogReaver" data-source="post: 8150504" data-attributes="member: 6795602">There's more than that.  There is agency over declaring an attempted action and agency over the outcome of that action.  I'm trying to be specific enough so that I'm not misunderstood when I claim dice take away agency.  It's not the agency to attempt an action they take away, but rather they have removed agency over the outcome itself resulting in less overall agency as such situations get framed in this thread.I like that you gave examples of different cases and your views on agency in them.  I don't fully agree with all your assessments but I think that's a good way to proceed in this discussion.I think it depends on what triggers the roll and what fiction has been established on the lead up.  Player I'm going to go defeat the dungeon of traps.  DM, upon entering, roll a d20 and hand me your sheet.  *Though perhaps the qualifier of blind removes such situations but I'm not sure that's specifically how you meant "blind".Again , that depends on the leadup.  Would the player have gotten the notice check if he was doing X instead of being on the lookout for danger?  If so he had agency.Again, depending on the leadup, deciding to enter may have been agency or not.  Choosing to make or not make a check might not be agency depending on what the consequences of doing so/not doing so are.  Agency on deciding to enter which is coupled with the decision to roll.  This reads as less agency to me.  There's only 1 decision point.Presumably you had agency to enter and you have agency on what you encounter, but no agency on whether to make the check.No agency about having the bad feeling.  Agency about what it is.  Your agency to choose to enter and to make a roll to avoid being surprised are tied to the same decision point.</blockquote>

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