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A Question Of Agency?
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<blockquote data-quote="Ovinomancer" data-source="post: 8153743" data-attributes="member: 16814"><p>This is an interesting observation, and but the idea that effects are predetermined kind of elides a few things. First, most of these are predetermined by the GM themselves, in whatever design they've placed in their notes or whichever set of published materials they've decided to adopt without modification. The GM still has the agency over these outcomes, it's just displaced from the moment of play.</p><p></p><p>However, there is one area where things are very locked in -- spells. These are the refuge of agency in D&D, because the rules dictate that if you cast a spell, XYZ happens. This is the point and method whereby the players get the most say in the game. I find this interesting because there's a strong contingent of GMs that dislike the prevalence of magic ability in 5e, and I think that, while not entirely or even necessarily mostly, that this factors into it. Having lots of players that have spells means that they have a lot more agency over the situation, provided a spell addresses it.</p><p></p><p>I absolutely agree these would be analogous. The difference is that fudging the die roll is hidden, so the GM can do this and keep the Force from the players' awareness. The Blades GM cannot -- it's pretty obvious this is going on. I know, the "subtle manipulation" argument, but this presupposes a strong GM agenda, which is anathema to the concept of Blades, and also a very skilled social manipulator to be able to do this covertly in the crucible of Blades play -- where everything is out in the open so manipulation would have to be very subtle. It's not a strong basis for an argument. Any GM in 5e making rolls behind the screen can fudge the dice without much effort (it's one reason I roll in the open -- and did prior to learning different approaches), but a GM in Blades attempting to direct play would have to put in a tremendous effort, and I'm not sure what the payoff is? The GM in 5e presumably, if acting in good faith, is acting to improve the game, at least from their understanding. This isn't necessary in Blades, for multiple reasons.</p><p></p><p>The SRD doesn't go in depth into how you're supposed to do these things because it just lists the principles of play with a quick blurb. There's an entire section on "How to Run the Game" in the rulebook that does provide these things. It's like how the 3.x or 5e SRDs don't really have a lot of information about how to run the game, while the DMG has a few chapters on the topic (and is worth reading).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ovinomancer, post: 8153743, member: 16814"] This is an interesting observation, and but the idea that effects are predetermined kind of elides a few things. First, most of these are predetermined by the GM themselves, in whatever design they've placed in their notes or whichever set of published materials they've decided to adopt without modification. The GM still has the agency over these outcomes, it's just displaced from the moment of play. However, there is one area where things are very locked in -- spells. These are the refuge of agency in D&D, because the rules dictate that if you cast a spell, XYZ happens. This is the point and method whereby the players get the most say in the game. I find this interesting because there's a strong contingent of GMs that dislike the prevalence of magic ability in 5e, and I think that, while not entirely or even necessarily mostly, that this factors into it. Having lots of players that have spells means that they have a lot more agency over the situation, provided a spell addresses it. I absolutely agree these would be analogous. The difference is that fudging the die roll is hidden, so the GM can do this and keep the Force from the players' awareness. The Blades GM cannot -- it's pretty obvious this is going on. I know, the "subtle manipulation" argument, but this presupposes a strong GM agenda, which is anathema to the concept of Blades, and also a very skilled social manipulator to be able to do this covertly in the crucible of Blades play -- where everything is out in the open so manipulation would have to be very subtle. It's not a strong basis for an argument. Any GM in 5e making rolls behind the screen can fudge the dice without much effort (it's one reason I roll in the open -- and did prior to learning different approaches), but a GM in Blades attempting to direct play would have to put in a tremendous effort, and I'm not sure what the payoff is? The GM in 5e presumably, if acting in good faith, is acting to improve the game, at least from their understanding. This isn't necessary in Blades, for multiple reasons. The SRD doesn't go in depth into how you're supposed to do these things because it just lists the principles of play with a quick blurb. There's an entire section on "How to Run the Game" in the rulebook that does provide these things. It's like how the 3.x or 5e SRDs don't really have a lot of information about how to run the game, while the DMG has a few chapters on the topic (and is worth reading). [/QUOTE]
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