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Message: <blockquote data-quote="FrogReaver" data-source="post: 8155650" data-attributes="member: 6795602">What in D&D does a player state about the fictional reality that they then roll to see if it sticks?  The player in D&D simply doesn't propose fictional reality - other than his characters actions.  He does author his PC's actions (attempted), whereas the DM typically authors the outcomes of those actions.  Contrast that to the much talked about painting example where the player authored the PC as attempting to attune to the painting and also what would be the outcome if they were successful.The painting example was more explicit than that.  It wasn't simply about whether it was supernatural.  It was about whether it would be usable to solve a particular goal.We all agree that's a form of player agency.  If anyone ever argued it wasn't it's been over a hundred pages since it happened.Some of the questions around that are:Does having that type of player agency actually mean you have more overall agency?Is having that type of player agency a universally good thing?Does having that type of player agency prevent you from having another type of player agency?Does that kind of player agency violate the Czege principle or any of it's cousins.Etc.SureSure, but the player in Blades did more than fictionally attempt to attune to the painting.  If all that was happening in that game was that fictional attempt to attune then I'd be in full agreement with you.  But in Blades the player also set up what the success state would look like. In D&D the player authors their action and the DM authors the outcome regardless of success or failure.In whatever game had the painting example the player authors their action and also authors the outcomes if it's a true success.You are conflating the ability to author the action with the ability to author the outcome.The person that is authoring the outcome is different. Or are you just ignoring when I do?Define Fiat then, because everyone of these authorship examples looks like it is fiat to me.In D&D the DM is the author of a success.  The PC authors the action attempt.  If there is a success the DM authors the success.  You've played D&D before.  How is this not obvious to you?In the game with the painting that we have been discussing, the DM wasn't the author on a success as the player explicitly stated what he wanted on a success.No.  In D&D The DM does the authoring of the outcome.And I don't think your objection is at all coherent.</blockquote>

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