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Message: <blockquote data-quote="hawkeyefan" data-source="post: 8156876" data-attributes="member: 6785785">Oh I think railroading is far harder to spot than nosepicking. I also think it’s a pretty poor comparison.Railroading isn’t something that is actively discouraged. In fact, it is at times promoted as the standard by which the entire hobby functions. Now, I think most of us here have enough experience to have a sense of what railroading is and how to avoid it. I expect the definition of what constitutes a railroad would be the big point of contention.But if you think that having processes and rules in place to prevent railroading is a bad idea, or that doing so must in some other way handcuff a GM, then I don’t think we’ll agree.Yes, I absolutely agree. I love that kind of stuff. I prefer for there to be rules on how to go about it. And I don’t just mean “say my argument, then have the GM determine a DC, and make the roll”. I prefer that the mechanics of all this be as robust and engaging as the scenario you describe. The bribery and the invitations and the politicking....I want all of that to matter in some way I can understand so that I know the game and can then make meaningful and informed decisions.Imagine baseball where the umpire didn’t call balls or strikes. He tracks them, but none of it is known to the players. How are they supposed to approach the game? This is where “GM Decides” puts us. Now, I know you’ll say “oh it’s about trust” but that’s not it. I may trust that the umpire has called each pitch exactly as he sees them. I just may not agree with his opinion. It can matter if you like. “Wow that’s a really compelling argument....roll with advantage.” And so on.When a 12th level fighter rolls a 4 on his attack and misses the fire giant, do you assume he’s tripped over his shoelaces and fallen on his face? Probably not. So again, why can’t a compelling argument, eloquently worded, still fail to sway anyone? I think that if the player takes the time to really lay it on and does a good job, there’s nothing wrong with giving them a bonus of some kind, as per my example above. I think this need to vet the attempts speaks to an underlying need to steer things. Whether it’s to preserve some idea about a NPC or other story element, or to keep some secret from the players that will matter later, or any other number of things.</blockquote>

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