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Message: <blockquote data-quote="aramis erak" data-source="post: 8158840" data-attributes="member: 6779310">The only practical difference in practice in HotB (and B&H) between GM and Players is the GM is allowed to bring in new characters without a roll and gets to hand out Style/Honor. Players can, with a roll, narrate things about just introduced NPCs that completely reverse the GM's intent for them. PVP is intentionally allowed.It made for some fun emergent fiction, but it also lead to such inanities as the Jolly Green 6-Jo-tall Oni as an ally. (Hint for would be B&H or HotB GM's: if you're introducing them as an enemy, define their opposition first, so that players can't define them as an old ally.)There's really no practical difference between 1a and 2a except the skill used, likewise 1b and 2b.  if the GM has a map and notes, those are established in the fiction as revealed, but are established in the GM's game-state simply by inclusion, and the players see the game state mostly through their character sheet and the GM's narration, unless the GM is a terrain monger.I'll second his statements about HotB; I've read it, and played the other game in the engine, Blood and Honor. It's mechanics are mostly about who controls the success/failure, and lots of «Yes, and» & «Yes, but», which, while limited to the scene, are explicitly not limited to the initial question rolled, provided they stay near the ongoing changes to game state and fiction state of play. The GM's not even the arbiter of "out of bounds" - that's the table as a whole.It's the highest advocacy game I've ever run. With the right people, it's really nifty. With the wrong ones (ones who don't respect other players' mental health and/or persons, nor their fun), it's the most miserable experience. Note that 7th Sea 2E is a walked back version of the mechanics.Fate makes a show of being "story-first" but fails to really support that all that well. At least, the mechanics as written are merely rules-light mostly-traditional with the ability to describe most mechanical elements as aspects, and fate points to create limits on abuse of the aspects. Not unlike 2d20, especially in the more recent versions.</blockquote>

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