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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 8159019" data-attributes="member: 87792">OK.Which is why I'm challenging you to come up with a real world example of a player authoring out a problem. Because, so far as you have explained it I can not think of one single game in which this happens. You are, so far as I can tell, talking about a strawman when you talk about a player authoring out a problem.So I am once again challenging you to show an example that would be legitimate in an RPG of your choice.  Because right now your objection here appears to be you inventing something something that does not happen then using this thing entirely invented by you as an objection to games where this is not legal.I'm not. I'm clarifying things to make sure that you are either talking about games that are either extremely obscure or are complete strawmen. Literally every game I can think of with disadvantages you pick at chargen that give you the benefit at chargen rather than in play that has them built into rather than tacked onto the game has a form of point buy where disadvantages can have variable prices. There may be a few where there's random chargen - and rolling a bad disadvantage is a problem in the same way rolling a bad stat is, but for these that's also part of the expected game.So once again you were inventing a problem that may exist in your head but does not exist in real world RPGs.On the contrary. I was clarifying what you meant. Making sure that it wasn't what might be an awkward way of expressing something that might appear in the real world.This is a misunderstanding.We both agree on how Blades is intended to be played. What we're disagreeing on is whether something is actively against the rules or just pretty obviously bad practice but something that can be done in theory.But we weren't saying that. I wasn't saying "this is how I play" or "this is how it should be played" but "This is not technically against the rules".I'm not sure where on earth this came from. I'm pointing out that you can value things and this is not a moral judgement. And that there are legitimate reasons for picking things that do not have the highest results on what you value.Replace "agency" with "speed"."You say you like fast cars. You should try this one if you ever get a chance. I think you'll like it more because it's faster." This is not an offensive statement.It may possibly be offensive to say "Rather than actually look at the track performance you're just going to claim that that hatchback of yours must be at least as fast. I'm pretty sure that at this point it's not speed you are interested in." but so is "lalalala no it isn't! Mine's the fastest around! Yours can't possibly be faster!" or even "They're all equally fast! No matter whether they do different things in different ways they must be as fast as each other!"And if the problem is either the "moral weight" behind the word agency or the idea that other games might have more player agency than theirs then those people should never again say that their game offers more agency than an adventure path because they are wilfully giving offence when they say this.Given the amount of D&D and especially 4e I know he's run I would be confident calling him a fan. It might be that 4e's the only edition he's actually a fan of.And "properties in a game" is among the less offensive ones.I think that if you claimed to have played those games and came back with your same exact opinions that it would be proof positive that you either had not actually played those games or you had gone in to those games determined to force your way of looking at them onto those games rather than with an open mind. Because they do not work the way your objections claim they do.I'm doing my best to assume good faith from you - but there reaches a point and you're pretty close to it where good faith does not matter. I'll stick to the good games that exist in the real world and we talk about and play in the real world, not the ones that you are talking about that so far as I can tell do not actually exist.</blockquote>

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