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Message: <blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 8166614" data-attributes="member: 82106">I think the key factor in our disagreement, such as it is, about sandbox play is in my deep skepticism about the feasibility of what you call the "DM's principled play" to be actualizable. My contention is that a fantasy game world is too abstract and cannot be realized in enough detail, and no single human has the sheer intellectual capacity, to really say what would or would not happen. That isn't even approaching the issue of a fantasy game where the laws of nature literally don't apply (at least consistently). So, my position here is that what the GM is doing when they consider how the world reacts, is they are enacting their agenda. This is literally the point where the GM is entirely in control. They can justify an almost limitless range of possible outcomes for most actions (certainly at a less granular level, but rules usually cover things like combat, climbing, falling, etc. with some degree of standardization at least). So, when it comes to "does the character's plot get back to the King?" this is going to be decided by what the GM wants to happen. Now, maybe the GM could (and maybe some do) follow an agenda indistinguishable from something out of, say, DW. That is they focus entirely on engaging with whatever the plot represents and they take their job as to make it dramatic, interesting, and to throw obstacles at the PC which will challenge the character in terms of values, concept, goals, etc. (IE his sister is sleeping with the Prince, does he warn her? Will she betray him?). I don't see that sandbox, as a conceptual framework addresses this at all. I don't see that there is any really objective process that can exist to adjudicate these things, and thus only principles rooted in narrative, or other real world concerns (the fiction being real fiction) actually carry water.</blockquote>

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