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A Question Of Agency?
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<blockquote data-quote="robconley" data-source="post: 8166878" data-attributes="member: 5636"><p>Sorry missed it.</p><p><strong>Vincent Baker's example (AW pp 154-55)</strong></p><p>Using D&D 5e because know the system.</p><p></p><p><em>Marie the brainer goes looking for Isle, to visit grief upon her, and finds her eating canned peaches on the roof of the car shed</em></p><p><em>with her brother Mill and her lover Plover (all NPCs)</em>. </p><p><strong>No Difference here.</strong></p><p></p><p><em>“I read the situation,” her player says</em>. </p><p><strong>Roll an insight check but from the example Maries know the NPCs so there little chance of failure. I would say roll 1d20 don't roll a one. </strong></p><p></p><p><em>You do? It’s charged?” I say.</em></p><p><em>“It is now.”</em></p><p><strong>This wouldn't happen this way. Instead there would pre-existing tension to exist in for Marie arrival to "charge" the situation established earlier events in the campaign or something the player created for their character background. If that so then yeah the situation is charged. But of it wasn't charged to begin with then roll a Intimidation check DC 15. But only after Marie's player described how the character escalates things.</strong></p><p></p><p><em>“Ahh,” I say. I understand perfectly: the three NPCs don’t realize it, but Marie’s arrival charges the situation. If it were a movie, the sound track would be picking up, getting sinister.</em></p><p></p><p><strong>Yeah I don't view things like they unfold in a movie. I view things like if was a Holodeck or virtual reality. Neither way is better but very different focus.</strong></p><p></p><p><em>She rolls+sharp and hits with a 7–9, so she gets to ask me one question from that move’s list. “Which of my enemies is the biggest threat?” she says.</em></p><p></p><p><strong>Again this would play out differently with me. The players would get to make a DC 15 Insight check after asking about the biggest threat without any preconditions. If the player have encountered the NPCs before, then the check is not needed. I would just tell them. </strong></p><p></p><p><em>“Plover,” I say. “No doubt. He’s out of his armor, but he has a little gun in his boot and he’s a hard fucker. Mill’s just 12 and he’s not a violent kid. Isle’s tougher, but not like Plover.” (See me misdirect! I just chose one capriciously, then pointed to fictional details as though they’d made the decision. We’ve never even seen Mill onscreen before, I just now made up that he’s 12 and not violent.)</em></p><p></p><p><strong>So if Marie's player wanted more details that not obvious from past event or knowledge then I would have the player make a DC 15 Insight check if it is about a character emotional state or DC 15 Perception check if it about the physical environment of the target. In this case noticing that the Plover has a little gun in his boot.</strong></p><p></p><p><em>“Hm, now I want an escape route. Can I read the situation again?”</em></p><p><em>“Of course not.” Once is what you get, unless the situation substantially changes.</em></p><p><strong>This exchange is baloney, given how the AW setting describes their characters, if Marie had enough situational awareness to scope out a escape route along with other things. So a DC 15 Perception check. But if this goes on after the second perception, there would be some type of reaction from the NPCs. Because basically what happening the Marie comes waltzing in and taking her sweet time in saying or doing anything. But I don't constrain the player saying "once is all you get". </strong></p><p><strong></strong></p><p><strong>The worst case is that you can only do so much in the time you have. So if you are willing to accept the consequences of taking extra time by all means continue.</strong></p><p></p><p>So I will end it here because I don't really want to do the work to figure out what direct-brain whisper projection is but the context is obviously some type of psionic ability of the brainer. But I don't see what I do playing about much differently. AW and my technique align the closest when comes to extraordinary abilities.</p><p></p><p><strong>Prince Valiant</strong></p><p><em>Exercising GM fiat, I declared that as they were crossing between Italy and the Balkan Peninsula the storms were incredibly fierce, and the captain of their ships decided to cut his losses, and dock and sell his cargo in Dalmatia. The PCs therefore set of on the overland trek to Constantinople.</em></p><p>I won't use fiat to that degree, I pregenerate the weather or it came about as result of random complication like with the AiME journey rules. </p><p></p><p><em>This was a fairly obvious contrivance to seed some scenarios. The players didn't object.</em></p><p><strong>When it comes to major events, I better not have come up with it on a whim or the players will react negatively out of game. Random naughty word is fine provided the setup of the odds isn't judicious for the setting. A whole session of AiME came about because of some really naughty word up journey results that caught the players flat-footed. I give more details later if desired. None of it was planned and it was all result of random rolls and working past events in the campaign.</strong></p><p></p><p><em> I used the first of them....</em></p><p><em>[The PCs forces are victorious, with some effective leadership by the PC knights.]</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>Sir Justin failed in a Healing check to save the lives of injured soldiers on his side, and so the forces were slightly depleted, but Sir Gerran gave a speech to the captured Huns explaining the greatness of St Sigobert and the order's cause and made a very successful Oratory roll, with the result that 32 Huns joined the PCs' forces, giving them a highly useful mounted archery capability.</em></p><p><strong>Similar events had happen in my campaign.</strong></p><p></p><p><em>I asked the players who would be with the four of them if they were scouting ahead to verify...</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>I was using the Rattling Forest scenario ...</em></p><p><em>...The PCs soon found themselves confronted by a knight all in black and wearing a greatsword, with a tattered cape hanging ....</em></p><p><strong>OK except I would have known what in the Rattling Forest in a broad sense and if I was pressed for time adapted some published forest adventure that fits. So it wouldn't be totally pulling something out of my ass. </strong></p><p><strong></strong></p><p><strong>But lets say I really have don't know. Then I would make a series of random rolls look at the result. Throw out any that doesn't make sense and reroll until I have a set of results that inspired me. Of course if a 1,000 hobbyist used this techniques some of it would abuse it until they get a result that reflected it biases. My criteria is does it make sense in light of the setting and the other rolls. So I still get the randomness to help minimize by own bias but also a result that useable in the context of that session.</strong></p><p></p><p><em>The players, and at least some of the PCs, had decided that there must be something in the forest that would be the anchor or locus of the curse, and Twillany's player spend the earlier-awarded Storyteller Certificate to Find Something Hidden ("An item which is lost, hidden, or otherwise concealed is discovered almost by accident by a character. The thing must be relatively close at hand, and the character must be searching for it at the moment.").</em></p><p><strong>Yeah I don't use metagame mechanics. Either their would been a anchor for the curse or not. If there is then it would discoverable. If it was hidden, the discovery process would be difficult. </strong></p><p></p><p>I hope I illustrated how I would handle things given your situations.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="robconley, post: 8166878, member: 5636"] Sorry missed it. [B]Vincent Baker's example (AW pp 154-55)[/B] Using D&D 5e because know the system. [I]Marie the brainer goes looking for Isle, to visit grief upon her, and finds her eating canned peaches on the roof of the car shed with her brother Mill and her lover Plover (all NPCs)[/I]. [B]No Difference here.[/B] [I]“I read the situation,” her player says[/I]. [B]Roll an insight check but from the example Maries know the NPCs so there little chance of failure. I would say roll 1d20 don't roll a one. [/B] [I]You do? It’s charged?” I say. “It is now.”[/I] [B]This wouldn't happen this way. Instead there would pre-existing tension to exist in for Marie arrival to "charge" the situation established earlier events in the campaign or something the player created for their character background. If that so then yeah the situation is charged. But of it wasn't charged to begin with then roll a Intimidation check DC 15. But only after Marie's player described how the character escalates things.[/B] [I]“Ahh,” I say. I understand perfectly: the three NPCs don’t realize it, but Marie’s arrival charges the situation. If it were a movie, the sound track would be picking up, getting sinister.[/I] [B]Yeah I don't view things like they unfold in a movie. I view things like if was a Holodeck or virtual reality. Neither way is better but very different focus.[/B] [I]She rolls+sharp and hits with a 7–9, so she gets to ask me one question from that move’s list. “Which of my enemies is the biggest threat?” she says.[/I] [B]Again this would play out differently with me. The players would get to make a DC 15 Insight check after asking about the biggest threat without any preconditions. If the player have encountered the NPCs before, then the check is not needed. I would just tell them. [/B] [I]“Plover,” I say. “No doubt. He’s out of his armor, but he has a little gun in his boot and he’s a hard fucker. Mill’s just 12 and he’s not a violent kid. Isle’s tougher, but not like Plover.” (See me misdirect! I just chose one capriciously, then pointed to fictional details as though they’d made the decision. We’ve never even seen Mill onscreen before, I just now made up that he’s 12 and not violent.)[/I] [B]So if Marie's player wanted more details that not obvious from past event or knowledge then I would have the player make a DC 15 Insight check if it is about a character emotional state or DC 15 Perception check if it about the physical environment of the target. In this case noticing that the Plover has a little gun in his boot.[/B] [I]“Hm, now I want an escape route. Can I read the situation again?” “Of course not.” Once is what you get, unless the situation substantially changes.[/I] [B]This exchange is baloney, given how the AW setting describes their characters, if Marie had enough situational awareness to scope out a escape route along with other things. So a DC 15 Perception check. But if this goes on after the second perception, there would be some type of reaction from the NPCs. Because basically what happening the Marie comes waltzing in and taking her sweet time in saying or doing anything. But I don't constrain the player saying "once is all you get". The worst case is that you can only do so much in the time you have. So if you are willing to accept the consequences of taking extra time by all means continue.[/B] So I will end it here because I don't really want to do the work to figure out what direct-brain whisper projection is but the context is obviously some type of psionic ability of the brainer. But I don't see what I do playing about much differently. AW and my technique align the closest when comes to extraordinary abilities. [B]Prince Valiant[/B] [I]Exercising GM fiat, I declared that as they were crossing between Italy and the Balkan Peninsula the storms were incredibly fierce, and the captain of their ships decided to cut his losses, and dock and sell his cargo in Dalmatia. The PCs therefore set of on the overland trek to Constantinople.[/I] I won't use fiat to that degree, I pregenerate the weather or it came about as result of random complication like with the AiME journey rules. [I]This was a fairly obvious contrivance to seed some scenarios. The players didn't object.[/I] [B]When it comes to major events, I better not have come up with it on a whim or the players will react negatively out of game. Random naughty word is fine provided the setup of the odds isn't judicious for the setting. A whole session of AiME came about because of some really naughty word up journey results that caught the players flat-footed. I give more details later if desired. None of it was planned and it was all result of random rolls and working past events in the campaign.[/B] [I] I used the first of them.... [The PCs forces are victorious, with some effective leadership by the PC knights.] Sir Justin failed in a Healing check to save the lives of injured soldiers on his side, and so the forces were slightly depleted, but Sir Gerran gave a speech to the captured Huns explaining the greatness of St Sigobert and the order's cause and made a very successful Oratory roll, with the result that 32 Huns joined the PCs' forces, giving them a highly useful mounted archery capability.[/I] [B]Similar events had happen in my campaign.[/B] [I]I asked the players who would be with the four of them if they were scouting ahead to verify... I was using the Rattling Forest scenario ... ...The PCs soon found themselves confronted by a knight all in black and wearing a greatsword, with a tattered cape hanging ....[/I] [B]OK except I would have known what in the Rattling Forest in a broad sense and if I was pressed for time adapted some published forest adventure that fits. So it wouldn't be totally pulling something out of my ass. But lets say I really have don't know. Then I would make a series of random rolls look at the result. Throw out any that doesn't make sense and reroll until I have a set of results that inspired me. Of course if a 1,000 hobbyist used this techniques some of it would abuse it until they get a result that reflected it biases. My criteria is does it make sense in light of the setting and the other rolls. So I still get the randomness to help minimize by own bias but also a result that useable in the context of that session.[/B] [I]The players, and at least some of the PCs, had decided that there must be something in the forest that would be the anchor or locus of the curse, and Twillany's player spend the earlier-awarded Storyteller Certificate to Find Something Hidden ("An item which is lost, hidden, or otherwise concealed is discovered almost by accident by a character. The thing must be relatively close at hand, and the character must be searching for it at the moment.").[/I] [B]Yeah I don't use metagame mechanics. Either their would been a anchor for the curse or not. If there is then it would discoverable. If it was hidden, the discovery process would be difficult. [/B] I hope I illustrated how I would handle things given your situations. [/QUOTE]
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