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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 8167039" data-attributes="member: 42582">[USER=6993955]@Fenris-77[/USER] I went back to <a href="http://www.indie-rpgs.com/articles/15/" target="_blank">Ron Edwards on "metagame mechanics"</a>:Metagame mechanics, by definition, entail the interjection of real-people priorities into the system-operation. . . . To clarify for purposes of the essay, compare the following: (1) an in-game essence or metaphysical effect called "Karma," which represents the character's moral status in that game-universe according to (e.g.) a god or principle in that game-world; (2) a score on the sheet which has literally nothing to do with the character's in-game identity, also called "Karma," recognized and applied by the real people with no in-game entity used to justify it. In both systems, Karma is a point-score which goes up and down, and which can be brought into play as, say, a bonus to one's dice roll. But I'd say that #1 is not metagame at all, and #2 is wholly metagame. Mechanically, how do they differ? One thing to consider is how the score goes up and down - by player-use, or by in-game effects? Another is whether the score is integrated with the reward/improvement system - does spending a Karma reduce one's bank of improvement points? In fact, is Karma a spent resource at all? Still another issue is whether in-game effects must be in place, or inserted into place, to justify its use. No one of these indicators is hard-and-fast, however; one must consider them all at once, and how they relate to Simulationism (and non-Simulationism) is a fascinating issue. At this point I tend to think that the main issue, basically, is who is considered to "spend" them - character or player.Looking at Storyteller Certificates in this light:(1) The resource goes up by GM response to in-game effects, and goes down by player use; (2) The resource is not integrated with the reward/improvement system; (3) In-game effects must be in place, or inserted into place, to justify their use (see the example of play upthread, where the PCs find something hidden because they are looking for it); (4) It is the player, not the character, who spends the resource.Looking at Battlemaster dice in the same light:(1) The resource goes up by in-game effects (ie short rest) and goes down by player use; (2) The resource is not integrated with the reward/improvement system; (3) No in-game effects need be in place, or inserted into place, to justify their use; (4) I think it is the player, not the character, who spends the resource.That (4) might be controversial - how I've presented is consistent with the overwhelming weight of 4e D&D commentary, but I don't know if 5e has changed people's minds.  Looking at the others, the (1) for manoeuvre dice is less metagame than for Storyteller Certificates, but the (3) is moreso.This is why I think they rise and fall together.For completeness, MHRP Plot points:(1) The resource goes up and down by player use or GM decision-making but with no reference to ingame effects; (2) The resource is not integrated with the reward/improvement system; (3) No in-game effects need be in place, or inserted into place, to justify their use; (4) It is the player, not the character, who spends the resource.These clearly are metagame.</blockquote>

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