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<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 8172731" data-attributes="member: 82106"><p>Sure, but how does Clue's mechanics, such as they are, inform us about how to do this? There is no 'clue' in Clue, no fiction at all, aside from naming the variables and the puzzle in a suggestive fashion. Looking at Clue doesn't help us develop an RPG process. It is divorced from fiction and from RP at all. Saying "model your game on Clue" doesn't even get me one iota closer to an RPG solution to a mystery game. I mean, yes, we could cloak Clue's core mechanic in a more open world type of game where you RP going from location to location, and perhaps you actually need to find a murder weapon instead of just guessing them. But how do you explain the 'process of elimination' part in game world fictional terms? It doesn't really make sense. The "I need to guess the murder weapon" is a nonsensical and utterly gamist construct. MAYBE we can more carefully build other constructs, but the core issue remains. In Clue you simply blurt out "Mr Mustard did it in the Study with the Knife" but in an RPG you'd have to play through finding some evidence for those assertions, and then some process by which making them would lead to either their validation or refutation. None of that process is informed by modeling on Clue.</p><p></p><p>OK, but if the particulars of the case are determined by oracles (as I understand it these are random tables) how does this work? The real issue here with mysteries in particular is nuts and bolts. How do you go from the initial idea of playing a mystery, through the conceptual maze of what that means in game structural terms, and then down to the final level of actualization of a specific mystery story in play. We've all discussed a few proposals in the first 2 areas, but I don't think we can go further in that discussion without bringing it all the way down to the "what exactly happens at the table" (and obviously to work out which proposals 'gel' in actual play would require testing them, but I am confident we're not going to do that in a thread here).</p><p></p><p>Interesting. It is a genre I've really not had a lot of contact with. Kinda stuck more with the 'Cthulhuoid' sort of modern fantasy. Most of the 'elves exist in the real world' sort just never seemed to push my buttons that much (and don't get me started on all these Vampire stories, Anne Rice was compelling fiction back in the day, but I don't see much value in what came after).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 8172731, member: 82106"] Sure, but how does Clue's mechanics, such as they are, inform us about how to do this? There is no 'clue' in Clue, no fiction at all, aside from naming the variables and the puzzle in a suggestive fashion. Looking at Clue doesn't help us develop an RPG process. It is divorced from fiction and from RP at all. Saying "model your game on Clue" doesn't even get me one iota closer to an RPG solution to a mystery game. I mean, yes, we could cloak Clue's core mechanic in a more open world type of game where you RP going from location to location, and perhaps you actually need to find a murder weapon instead of just guessing them. But how do you explain the 'process of elimination' part in game world fictional terms? It doesn't really make sense. The "I need to guess the murder weapon" is a nonsensical and utterly gamist construct. MAYBE we can more carefully build other constructs, but the core issue remains. In Clue you simply blurt out "Mr Mustard did it in the Study with the Knife" but in an RPG you'd have to play through finding some evidence for those assertions, and then some process by which making them would lead to either their validation or refutation. None of that process is informed by modeling on Clue. OK, but if the particulars of the case are determined by oracles (as I understand it these are random tables) how does this work? The real issue here with mysteries in particular is nuts and bolts. How do you go from the initial idea of playing a mystery, through the conceptual maze of what that means in game structural terms, and then down to the final level of actualization of a specific mystery story in play. We've all discussed a few proposals in the first 2 areas, but I don't think we can go further in that discussion without bringing it all the way down to the "what exactly happens at the table" (and obviously to work out which proposals 'gel' in actual play would require testing them, but I am confident we're not going to do that in a thread here). Interesting. It is a genre I've really not had a lot of contact with. Kinda stuck more with the 'Cthulhuoid' sort of modern fantasy. Most of the 'elves exist in the real world' sort just never seemed to push my buttons that much (and don't get me started on all these Vampire stories, Anne Rice was compelling fiction back in the day, but I don't see much value in what came after). [/QUOTE]
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