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A question to those that give the expertise feat for free
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<blockquote data-quote="kaomera" data-source="post: 5193525" data-attributes="member: 38357"><p>Yes, but...</p><p></p><p>Your base-line, single character numbers aren't actually "typical" because that's not how characters actually function in the game. You have to find a way to count the contributions of other party members, maneuvering / terrain, power effects (both innate and magic items), etc...</p><p></p><p>firesnakearies probably took that Paragon Path at least in part because of that nice bump to his accuracy. There's a lot of ways to increase accuracy by 24th level, both consistent (Expertise, the Earth Shaker level 16 feature, etc.) and temporary (flanking, buffs and/or debuffs from a Leader or Controller, etc.). The problem lies in the fact that you need them. Characters that aren't getting these buffs (because of the way they are built, the nature of the encounter, tactics, party composition, whatever...) aren't going to hit consistently, and the game is going to head towards either grind or TPK... OTOH, stack too many of these (as well as damage, conditions, etc.) and the game becomes a cakewalk pretty fast.</p><p></p><p>And that's just in terms of the PCs hitting monsters. I've seen high-level parties (even paragon) that just can't easily be hurt in any significant way. The idea is that you have to give up one thing for another, and that characters would be built for some sort of "middle ground"... But specialization leads to optimization, more often than not.</p><p></p><p>Overall 4e is a pretty robust game, but especially at higher levels the "swing" of difficulty can get a bit broad. The designers seem (IMO) to have tried to reign this in with the math, making certain bonuses more and more important at higher levels, but it wasn't completely successful, because the situation is too fluid. What works for one group isn't going to work for another.</p><p></p><p><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue :p" data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" /> I'd almost suggest that their ought to be some sort of a "dungeon master" who can assess the situation and make the appropriate changes on an individual-game level, to keep things running smoothly... <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="kaomera, post: 5193525, member: 38357"] Yes, but... Your base-line, single character numbers aren't actually "typical" because that's not how characters actually function in the game. You have to find a way to count the contributions of other party members, maneuvering / terrain, power effects (both innate and magic items), etc... firesnakearies probably took that Paragon Path at least in part because of that nice bump to his accuracy. There's a lot of ways to increase accuracy by 24th level, both consistent (Expertise, the Earth Shaker level 16 feature, etc.) and temporary (flanking, buffs and/or debuffs from a Leader or Controller, etc.). The problem lies in the fact that you need them. Characters that aren't getting these buffs (because of the way they are built, the nature of the encounter, tactics, party composition, whatever...) aren't going to hit consistently, and the game is going to head towards either grind or TPK... OTOH, stack too many of these (as well as damage, conditions, etc.) and the game becomes a cakewalk pretty fast. And that's just in terms of the PCs hitting monsters. I've seen high-level parties (even paragon) that just can't easily be hurt in any significant way. The idea is that you have to give up one thing for another, and that characters would be built for some sort of "middle ground"... But specialization leads to optimization, more often than not. Overall 4e is a pretty robust game, but especially at higher levels the "swing" of difficulty can get a bit broad. The designers seem (IMO) to have tried to reign this in with the math, making certain bonuses more and more important at higher levels, but it wasn't completely successful, because the situation is too fluid. What works for one group isn't going to work for another. :p I'd almost suggest that their ought to be some sort of a "dungeon master" who can assess the situation and make the appropriate changes on an individual-game level, to keep things running smoothly... ;) [/QUOTE]
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